Let's Close The Gunshow Loophole

[Tennessee Gentleman]

If I am to sell a firearm to someone I don't know, which I can do here in Nevada, I like to call local LE and just ask, is this guy a felon? Is this person prohibited from legally owning a firearm?

Because you are a responsible ethical gun owner. I commend you and I am the same way. If all were like you we wouldn't need this crap. As I said several posts back, the honest often suffer because of the dishonest. Sad but true.

 

[Wildalaska]

You have also shown that compromising your rights leads to too much govt intervention. i.e. 1934 and 1968.
It's obvious we will never agree on this one. We're at polar ends of the spectrum on the issue.
By assuming you're guilty until you prove otherwise. How convenient for the government.

For the purpose of this thread, you are just going to have to suck it up. NICS is a fact, NICs is constituional, NICs works. You will alwys need to get "permission" if you want to look at it that way. So now how do we deal with the issue of private sales with the foregoing already reality

WildimwatchingmendocinoweedAlaska TM

 

[DonR101395]

For the purpose of this thread, you are just going to have to suck it up. NICS is a fact, NICs is constituional, NICs works. You will alwys need to get "permission" if you want to look at it that way. So now how do we deal with the issue of private sales with the foregoing already reality

Nahhh, I'm just gonna fence off the front of my property, secede from the union and no longer accept U.S. passports. When I need stuff I'll just jump across the border.

 

[maestro pistolero]

NICS is a fact, NICs is constituional, NICs works

Agreed. I suppose I wouldn't have a problem requiring NICS for face to face, with certain exceptions: Law enforcement, current CCW holders, immediate family known to be eligible, legally inherited firearms, active military, etc.

If it creates a registration, I've got a problem. We know what that can enable down the road.

 

[thallub]

Are you with us on this?

No!!! Any legal product should be able to be sold by it legal owner with jumping through government hoops.

 

[Glenn E. Meyer]

Liquor to minors? Or is liquor definitionally not legal to sell to minors because it is dangerous?

So should we sell guns to minors now? Or does some societal need define what can sold?

So if you agree to guns and minors being controlled - what about guns to felons or folks who don't pass the mental health test on the 4473?

 

[Tennessee Gentleman]

No!!! Any legal product should be able to be sold by it legal owner with jumping through government hoops.

The reason for the "hoop" is to id who is not legally allowed to have that legal product. The legally of the product is different from who is legally entitled to own or possess it.

 

[Playboypenguin]

No!!! Any legal product should be able to be sold by it legal owner with jumping through government hoops.

And if you sell a gun to someone that cannot legally possess one that then uses it to harm someone do you accept responsibility? Do you agree to be held liable?

 

[Wildalaska]

These last posts, correct as they are in response to thallub, are just Oroboros as the issue is not Governemt control qua government control, but how to make it work in a practical sense

So member Thallub, to reask the question posted:

For the purpose of this thread, you are just going to have to suck it up. NICS is a fact, NICs is constituional, NICs works. You will always need to get "permission" if you want to look at it that way. So now how do we deal with the issue of private sales with the foregoing already reality

WildifitsdonothingthenthatsyouranswerAlaska ™

 

[thallub]

For the purpose of this thread, you are just going to have to suck it up. NICS is a fact, NICs is constituional, NICs works. You will always need to get "permission" if you want to look at it that way. So now how do we deal with the issue of private sales with the foregoing already reality

???????


Look at the title of the thread:

Let's Close The Gunshow Loophole

I was talking about closure of the non-existent "gunshow loophole."
I buy a couple guns a month and know all about NICS. Have no problem with NICS. Was not talking about NICS. Was talking about infrequent sales of guns by non-dealers.

Lets' not close the non-existent "gunshow loophole."

 

[thallub]

We do not need the federal governments long nose in the gunshow business. Here is just one thing from the failed McCain-Lieberman "gunshow loophole" bill:

4. Centralized federal registration of EVERY PERSON who attends a gun show in America, whether or not they make purchases of anything at all -- you won't be allowed in without registering;

Read about the McCain-Lieberman "gunshow loophole" bill:

http://www.gunlaws.com/McCainLieberman.htm

 

[Tennessee Gentleman]

I was talking about closure of the non-existent "gunshow loophole."

We are too but we debunked the misnomer of the term. What the antis are talking about are FTF sales and not just at gun shows.

I buy a couple guns a month and know all about NICS. Have no problem with NICS.

OK, I think we agree here too so the question is; why not have NICS for FTF sales. Why should they not be a part of the system as well? Can you see that FTF sales without NICS could be an avenue for illegals to buy guns?

 

[Stevie-Ray]

I think the militia is what the 2A says protects a free state.

No, unless you mean the unorganized militia which is every citizen with privately owned firearms. The organized militia is taken care of in the Constitution.

At the time of the adoption of the Bill of Rights, this country's statesmen were concerned with the need to protect citizens from the government itself, and the passage of almost two centuries has not negated the validity of that concern. The fact that Article I, Section 8, Clause 16 of the Constitution grants Congress the power to organize, arm, and discipline the militia, clearly indicates a quite different intention for the Second Amendment...........James L. Buckley

I don't see a gun show loophole where I attend. I don't know if private sales are allowed there or not, but there are no signs. At some I used to go to, somebody might be walking carrying a rifle over their shoulder with a for sale sign attached, but I haven't seen anything like that in a long while. I suppose since it is private property, they can ban private non-FFL sales if they want. I really don't think it was ever much of a problem though, and too many make way too much of it.

 

[thallub]

OK, I think we agree here too so the question is; why not have NICS for FTF sales. Why should they not be a part of the system as well? Can you see that FTF sales without NICS could be an avenue for illegals to buy guns?

Illegals get the vast majority of their guns from their burglar friends and from their clean buds who make straw purchases for them. If you believe so passionately in this stuff then lobby your state reps to change that law in your state.

Maybe I woke up and signed onto the Brady site by mistake.

 

[Wildalaska]

Maybe I woke up and signed onto the Brady site by mistake.

No...they don't question, analyze or critically think...they just spout simplistic slogans based on a skewed worldview...

Unlike here, yes?

Illegals get the vast majority of their guns from their burglar friends and from their clean buds who make straw purchases for them.

really? So you are alleging that FTF sales at gunshows outside the NICs system are always one perfectly legal guy to another?

WildibetinsomeareasitsthefavouredwaytobuyillegalgunsAlaska TM

 

[Tennessee Gentleman]

No, unless you mean the unorganized militia which is every citizen with privately owned firearms. The organized militia is taken care of in the Constitution.

Sort of off topic but since you mentioned it, according to the Militia Act of 1903 the unorganized militia(that term is not found in the Constitution) is simply to pool of people from which the organized militia (now The National Guard) draws it's members. Firearm ownership has nothing to do with the unorganized militia and it isn't everybody either.

If you believe so passionately in this stuff then lobby your state reps to change that law in your state.

Not to worry, both McCain and Obama said they would do it so I won't have to wait for the states to. Which some have done.

Illegals get the vast majority of their guns from their burglar friends

Isn't that a FTF sale?

 

[Al Norris]

Illegals get the vast majority of their guns from their burglar friends

Isn't that a FTF sale?

Illegal aliens by law, are prohibited persons. Chances are good that the burglar friend is also. So any point about NICS and/or FTF sales is irrelevant in this case. They are simply not going to check each other. Don't much matter what any law says.

 

[Tennessee Gentleman]

Illegal aliens by law, are prohibited persons. Chances are good that the burglar friend is also. So any point about NICS and/or FTF sales is irrelevant in this case. They are simply not going to check each other. Don't much matter what any law says.

Point made. However, honest people or nearly honest who are afraid they will be charged too if caught, won't sell without the NICS. Won't stop crime but then no law will. However, it might make a dent.

Here is some facts I looked at: http://www.atf.gov/firearms/ycgii/2000/generalfindings.pdf Go to Page 26, it is interesting.

 

[alloy]

Illegal aliens by law, are prohibited persons. Chances are good that the burglar friend is also. So any point about NICS and/or FTF sales is irrelevant in this case.

thats circular logic then, if you are going to remove "prohibited persons" and "burglar friends" from the equation as irrelevant, what is the point? they are either the type of "prohibited person"...all this hoopla is about, or they aren't. they are totally relevant, they just wont comply.

Don't much matter what any law says.

however, that does pretty much sum it all up.

 

[DonR101395]

really? So you are alleging that FTF sales at gunshows outside the NICs system are always one perfectly legal guy to another?

Are you alleging that every gun sold through a dealer is always to a perfectly legal guy?







I'll answer that for you. This guy Seung-Hui Cho bought his guns at a dealer and went through an NICS check and he was not legal to own firearms after being adjudicated mentally ill.

If you aren't sure who he is google his name.