LEO Only Mags

[cuerno de chivo]

Can LEOs legally purchase LEO only magazines for Non-Duty use? Can they legally purchase LEO only magazines without Letter Head? It seems like alot of LEOs do this, and, from my reading of the BATF rules, it would seem to be illegal.

 

[LawDog]

The departments that I've worked for would have allowed me to purchase extended capacity magazines via department letterhead over the Sheriff's signature for:

• weapons used in the commission of my LEO duties only,
• a reasonable number (duty load) of magazines,
• and, since the department was going to be stuck with the magazines when I left, magazines for common LEO weapons only.

Which, boiled down, meant the department would use my money to buy three normal-capacity magazines for Glocks, SIG-Sauers or Berettas for themselves.

If you're like me and tend toward odd duty weapons, or you needed more than three of them, you were stuck with the neutered Clinton Specials.

LawDog

 

[mrat]

What Lawdog wrote is how my department does it.

 

[Charmedlyfe]

When the law first came out, no letterhead was needed, at least per many ATF agents. Later, the 'letterhead requirement' came out as an 'interpretation' by the ATF, and everything had to be done on letterhead. I believe this was done in response to officers purchasing weapons and mags without letterhead, then reselling them to the general public. At the time, there was a lot of confusion about the law. I had an ATF agent tell me when I bought my LEO AR lower that it was mine forever, even if I left the department. That later changed, too, and it had to be turned in when I quit, along with my LEO mags.

Lots of agencies have it in their policy manual that you are always (24/7) acting as a LEO even when not working shift, thus even off-duty weapons qualified as 'for duty purposes'. Even my 45Super Para P14 was a 'duty' weapon, because I carried it off-duty (and in my cruiser glove-box when on).

 

[cuerno de chivo]

Thanks for the info.

So throwing in LEO only mags on a pistol purchase by another LEO without a Letterhead is illegal??

I guess that I ought to send out a question to the BATF as soon as their webpage is back up.

 

[Charmedlyfe]

Actually, they now hold that you MUST get letterhead before transferring the mags to another LEO.

 

[Bowser]

I think that the magazine restriction laws are unconstitutional. I am sure that most people here would be in favor of scrapping those laws.

I also think that if a cop gets a full cap magazine without producing the required Letter from the Department, then fair play to him.

I certainly wouldn't rat anyone out to the BATF for not complying 100% with the letter of an unconstitutional law.

People efforts would be better directed at getting the stupid law repealed, not at bitching to the BATF that some cop can get a mag without a letter.

Making cops weaker does not make us any stronger.

Bowser.

 

[cuerno de chivo]

Bowser

What's good for the goose is good for the gander. Police should not be exempt from punishment if they break Federal Firearms Laws.

 

[IamNOTaNUT]

I studied this statute when a friend of mine showed me the new gun he bought. A police officer may purchase full capacity magazines for use in connection with their duties as a LEO. Most agencies allow their officers to carry off-duty, so the use of full capacity magazines is allowed.

As for the officer to officer sale of restricted magazines, or rifles, there is nothing to prevent this and there is no requirement to obtain a letterhead in the statute to make a purchase from a brother officer.

 

[Jeff Thomas]

Friends, as noted above, we should always try to properly call them "full capacity" magazines. In truth, they are not extended capacity magazines, and they are not high capacity magazines.

My Sig came with a 13 round magazine. The unnatural thing was to give me dead air and a depression in the grip where the other 3 rounds used to reside.

Don't mean to be too picky, or hijack the thread ... I just think that words matter and I really hate allowing my enemys' rhetoric to rule.

Regards from AZ

 

[cuerno de chivo]

From BATF FAQ:

"(O11) What documentation must a manufacturer, importer, or dealer obtain from law enforcement officers who purchase semiautomatic assault weapons and large capacity ammunition feeding devices for official use? [Back]

Licensees may transfer semiautomatic assault weapons and large capacity ammunition feeding devices to law enforcement officers with the following documentation:
(1) a written statement from the purchasing officer, under penalty of perjury, stating that the weapon or device is being purchased for use in performing official duties and that the weapon or device is not being acquired for personal use or for purposes of transfer or resale; and
(2) a written statement from a supervisor of the purchasing officer, under penalty of perjury, stating that the purchasing officer is acquiring the weapon or feeding device for use in official duties, that the weapon or device is suitable for use in performing official duties, and that the weapon or device is not being acquired for personal use or for purposes of transfer or resale. In the case of a transfer of a semiautomatic assault weapon, the supervisor's written statement must also state that a records check reveals that the purchasing officer has no convictions for misdemeanor crimes of domestic violence. In the case of semiautomatic assault weapons, licensees are required to retain the above statements in their permanent records for a period of 5 years. [27 C. F. R. 178.129, 178.132, 178.134]"

It looks like all FFL transfers are going to have to have Letterhead. There is apparently a "loophole" for in state private transfers among individuals.

 

[Dangus]

I think that the magazine restriction laws are unconstitutional. I am sure that most people here would be in favor of scrapping those laws.

So when are we gonna organize and put a stop to this crap? What is the NRA, GOA, or JPFO doing about this? Nothing. This law should have been contested in court years ago. Why are we sitting on our asses taking this crap from the people we put in office?

 

[Zander]

Jeff...

You call them "full" capacity mags; I call them "standard" capacity mags.

We're both correct...and willing to advocate that others use the correct terminology.

The gun-banners coined the term "high capacity".
I refuse to use it. And when I refer to restricted capacity mags...id est, ten-rounders...I call them "Klinton" mags.

No one has a problem understanding what I mean.

 

[Oleg Volk]

I am in the process of writing a guide to crippled magazines: three major ways of restricting capacity exist and each of them makes the magazine less reliable than its standard counterpart. Limited capacity is just one problem, poor functioning is another serious issue.

 

[Bowser]

Cuerno,

not an attack on you, but a question.

Are you in favor of this magazine ban law?
If not, then why would you want to see it enforced on anyone?

Do you want to see a cop go to jail for 5 years because he has a mag that a dumb law says he shouldn't?

Bowser.

 

[Oleg Volk]

I think the idea behind enforcing the law against the cops is that they would also be upset and fight to change it. Equal protection under the law and all...

 

[cuerno de chivo]

Oleg pretty much took the words out of my mouth.

 

[Bowser]

I still don't know why anyone would want anyone else to go to jail for 5 years in a Federal penitentiary for having a 15 round mag without a Dept. letterhead.

IF we are ever to stand up for the 2nd Amendment, shouldn't these laws be broken or changed, not enforced?

Anyway, I won't go on anymore!!

Good luck,

Bowser.

 

[cuerno de chivo]

OTOH

I really don't understand why one would think that Law Enforcement Officers should be immune from punishment when they break laws.

 

[Don Gwinn]

Bowser, it's not an issue of sitting around hoping someone else gets busted. The point is that anti-gunners divide us in many ways because the smaller groups are less organized and easier to overcome singly. One of the ways they do this is to exempt one group or another temporarily so that the chosen group will choose not to fight against the measure. As long as police officers get a pass for breaking this law, even in small ways, how many of them will be willing to take risks to get it overturned? Why should they?

Beyond that, there's the basic issue of fairness. It is grossly unfair that Officer Friendly gets to use the correct magazines for his gun, while I'm stuck with wannabes that don't work as well. How much I like Officer Friendly and what a nice guy he is doesn't enter into it.