LCR 9mm = good news

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KyJim

New member
I know individual guns will vary, but most of the tests I have seen show premium defensive 9mm rounds out of a short barrel like the LCR's (two inches rounded off) will generally be close to the velocity from a three-inch semi-auto. For example, take a look at the table about halfway down the page at Pocket Guns and Gear where the LCR mostly exceeds the velocities from three-inch Kahr just a bit. Some other gel tests from a three-inch semi-auto show slightly higher velocities out of a semi-auto; for example here and here from ShootingtheBull410.

My point is that there should be several commercially available loads that give good penetration and expansion from the LCR 9mm. That was a big reason I have put my .38 spl J-frames in semi-retirement. I do leave open the possibility of carrying my Model 38 in a pocket holster because it is lighter and has that small grip frame that conceals better.
 
C

Carmady

New member
tests I have seen show premium defensive 9mm rounds out of a short barrel like the LCR's (two inches rounded off) will generally be close to the velocity from a three-inch semi-auto.
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Thanks for those links.

In another Paul Harrell video he compared the LCR 9mm to the LC9 (3.1" barrel, original hammer fired version), and the difference between chrony averages was 4fps.

And in yet another (I think) he was comparing 9mm semi-autos, the S&W M&P Compact with a 3.5" barrel chronied 86fps faster than the same LC9 (3.1"). Then off camera he shot a Beretta with a 4.75" barrel, and the extra 1.25" only increased velocity by 45fps over the 3.5" barrel. That's why I'd like to see a 3" LCR 9mm, but I'm really pleased with the regular LCR so far.
 
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TruthTellers

New member
You'll more than likely see a 3 inch LCR 9mm. The barrels for the .357 and 9mm LCR's are the same there's little that needs doing to make it a possibility. I was almost convinced that Ruger wasn't going to make the 3 inch LCR's in the steel frame, but they did and makes me wonder if I should have held off buying the SP101 in .327.
 
C

Carmady

New member
I have a feeling the groove diameter is tad too generous to be lead friendly.
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I never slugged a barrel before, and slugged the LCR 9mm today. There was a bit of a learning curve and I'll do it again, but I think I found the culprit of the leading from shooting the 380 95gr LRN bullets, and that would be oversized cylinder throats, NOT oversized groove diameter.

From what I could tell the groove diameter is somewhere just shy of .355", closer to .354". That surprised me, but that's about where it should be.

The slug would just about swish through the cylinder throats, and a .358" 38/357 LSWC bullet would pass through with light pressure, and the cylinder wasn't super clean.

Maybe the lack of the bullet sealing in the cylinder allows some lead to be blown around the bullet and into the barrel. And/or maybe enough lead is also removed to prevent the bullet from sealing in the barrel.

I'm going to try some MO Bullet Co's 124gr LRN with the "Hi-Tek" coating, and see if they eliminate the leading.
 
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TruthTellers

New member
Carmady said:
I never slugged a barrel before, and slugged the LCR 9mm today. There was a bit of a learning curve and I'll do it again, but I think I found the culprit of the leading from shooting the 380 95gr LRN bullets, and that would be oversized cylinder throats, NOT oversized groove diameter.

From what I could tell the groove diameter is somewhere just shy of .355", closer to .354". That surprised me, but that's about where it should be.

The slug would just about swish through the cylinder throats, and a .358" 38/357 LSWC bullet would pass through with light pressure, and the cylinder wasn't super clean.

Maybe the lack of the bullet sealing in the cylinder allows some lead to be blown around the bullet and into the barrel. And/or maybe enough lead is also removed to prevent the bullet from sealing in the barrel.

I'm going to try some MO Bullet Co's 124gr LRN with the "Hi-Tek" coating, and see if they eliminate the leading.
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Oversized throats is the usual issue, but the slug should be able to pass through the throat as the groove diameter can't be greater than the throat diameter.

What diameter are the throats?
 
C

Carl the Floor Walker

Moderator
I absoutly love the LCR9mm. I have no problem with the recoil. Just this side of pleasant before crossing over to unpleasant. About the same as shooting Plus P out of a similar size 38. None of the muzzle flash of the 357, not of the loud noise, and horrific recoil. I love moon clips, I love the build quality. I load up about 40 of them the day before a range trip and could shoot this gun all day if I choose. Have been shooting it going on 4 years now and a lot of ammo down range. Always reliable and I love the fact that I can shoot a inexpensive ammo and love the ballistics.
Read this article and range review. Notice how the Ballistics actually beat some of the Micro 9mm's. Ruger did this one right.
PS I love training with the LCR22 and just plain old fun! In fact both guns make a great time at the range!

A must read"

http://mousegunaddict.blogspot.com/search?q=lcr+9mm


 
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TruthTellers

New member
Carmady said:
Real close to .358", maybe a shade less.

A .356" 95gr LRN will fall right through, the .358" LSWC needs a light nudge or a sharp tap.
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This is typical Ruger these days, I'm dealing with it in my .327. Your throats were made to shoot jacketed bullets because almost all factory 9mm is jacketed. Good news is there are places you can buy .359 bullets, Mattsbullets is my current go to for lead .38/.357 bullets and he has a 93 grain bullet he'll size at .359. Just specify that's the size you want in the comments if you buy from him.

http://www.mattsbullets.com/index.php?main_page=index&cPath=65
 
C

Carmady

New member
Your throats were made to shoot jacketed bullets because almost all factory 9mm is jacketed.
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Jacketed bullets are usually .001" smaller in diameter than lead. My guess would be that they use the same drill bit for 38/357 throats on the 9mm. 38/357 bullets are about .002" wider than 9mm; .357" vs .355" for jacketed, and .358" vs .356" for lead. The lead 380 with a .356" diameter falls through the 9mm throats, and .358" lead bullets will squeeze through.

The diameter of the lead bullets I used is slightly larger than the groove diameter.
The diameter of the lead bullets I used is smaller than the throats.
That makes me suspect something happens between the time the bullet leaves the casing and before it gets into the bore.
 
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TruthTellers

New member
Carmady said:
Jacketed bullets are usually .001" smaller in diameter than lead. My guess would be that they use the same drill bit for 38/357 throats on the 9mm. 38/357 bullets are about .002" wider than 9mm; .357" vs .355" for jacketed, and .358" vs .356" for lead. The lead 380 with a .356" diameter falls through the 9mm throats, and .358" lead bullets will squeeze through.

The diameter of the lead bullets I used is slightly larger than the groove diameter.
The diameter of the lead bullets I used is smaller than the throats.
That makes me suspect something happens between the time the bullet leaves the casing and before it gets into the bore.
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Something does happen, it's called blow by. The rapidly expanding hot gases escape around the bullet as it passes through the throat and into the forcing cone, thus heating up and softening the lead that engages the rifling.

st_lowdownleadfoul_201002-a.jpg


Article here:
http://www.shootingtimes.com/editorial/ammunition_st_lowdownleadfoul_201002/99962
 
C

Carmady

New member
Thanks for that, it explains what's going on. It would be nice if Ruger made the throats the right size. They're into cutting corners whenever they can get away with it.

I think I'll try some of the 380 bullets with Power Pistol, just to see if a slower powder makes any noticeable difference. The other batch used HP-38.
 
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TruthTellers

New member
Carmady said:
Thanks for that, it explains what's going on. It would be nice if Ruger made the throats the right size. They're into cutting corners whenever they can get away with it.

I think I'll try some of the 380 bullets with Power Pistol, just to see if a slower powder makes any noticeable difference. The other batch used HP-38.
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Ruger has a lot of money to buy the correct tooling to make whatever size throats they want, they have just made the choice at some point that larger is better. Ruger doesn't build revolvers expecting everyone buying them is going to reload with cheap lead bullets and when you make a 9mm revolver and 95% of factory 9mm ammo is a jacketed bullet, there's no need to make the throats closer to the bullet diameter; FMJ works fine with a larger throat.

But when it comes to shooting lead, Ruger needs to make a better effort making their throats properly. .313-.314 throats for .327 when almost all .32 lead bullets are .311-.312 is not acceptable. The selling point to .327 is the ability to shoot .32 S&W Long, .32 H&R Mag but when those are loaded using undersize bullets, that ability becomes moot.
 
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Carmady

New member
Ruger has a lot of money to buy the correct tooling to make whatever size throats they want, they have just made the choice at some point that larger is better.
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Larger, as in larger bottom line.

3 ways businesses increase profits:
1) do less
2) charge more
3) cut expenses

A large percentage of S&W 38/357 revolvers I've checked will allow the .356" bullet to pass through the throats, but not the .358" bullet. Iow, going by the S&W's I've checked, if they made a 9mm the .356" bullet would not pass through the throats, much less a .358" bullet.

I did have a 642 that had throats that wouldn't let the .356" pass, and it had a leading problem. S&W replaced the cylinder.
 
C

Carmady

New member
More Good News:

Missouri Bullet Company's Hi-Tek coated bullets really work!

After shooting 132 of MBC's #HT-356125M bullets through the LCR 9mm the barrel got four or five in-out strokes of the brush with 3-part Ed's Red followed twice by a dry patch and it's CLEAN.

The thumb piece screw also stayed in place. I believe this one will become my one and only 5-shot snub.
 
T

TruthTellers

New member
Carmady said:
I believe this one will become my one and only 5-shot snub.
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After shooting .327 in the 4 inch Sp101, the blast and recoil felt like .357; I can only imagine how much more intense it would feel in the LCR.

The 9mm LCR has a lot going for it and I don't think your wrong saying this.
 
C

Carmady

New member
Imo, the big three factors at work to make this the ideal combination are:
1 weight - 17.2 oz; that extra 3+/- ounces helps
2 cartridge - the 9mm surpasses the .38 Spl and isn't obnoxious like the .357 Magnum
3 grip - the Hogue Tamer grip; an exposed backstrap or hard grip would likely be unpleasant
 
J

Jdin8455

New member
Congrats! I have a stainless Taurus 905, that's been reliable. I enjoy taking it to the range when my Glock 19 goes with me, and shooting 5 cylinders.
 
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bjw741

New member
Carmady said:
Imo, the big three factors at work to make this the ideal combination are:
1 weight - 17.2 oz; that extra 3+/- ounces helps
2 cartridge - the 9mm surpasses the .38 Spl and isn't obnoxious like the .357 Magnum
3 grip - the Hogue Tamer grip; an exposed backstrap or hard grip would likely be unpleasant
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A very good, succinct synopsis of the LCRx 9mm.

The cartridge is also very affordable to shoot.
 
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