The Redding body dies and small base body dies have no bushing, decapper, or expander. They are just a single, solid piece of steel. Redding S type FL sizing dies have a bushing and all those other things and Redding says they can be used without a bushing to serve as body dies. But with the bushings sold separately they cost more than the body die and the Lee Collet Die combined.
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Lake City pulldown 7.62 and Lee Collet die
- Thread starter Marco Califo
- Start date
That is correct. Two types of Redding "body" dies. One costs more.
In an email chat with Redding some years ago, Redding said the unsized several thousandths of case necks next to shoulders by bushings in their FL bushing dies helps center case necks in chamber necks. I asked if standard FL dies without expanders would center case necks on case shoulders then center them in chamber necks when fired. In so many words, their response was no as that short/small unsized "shoulder" on the case neck was better.
Many believe cases rest in the chamber bottom until they expand to chamber limits at peak pressure. Sierra Bullets stated this in their reloading data books for years.
In an email chat with Redding some years ago, Redding said the unsized several thousandths of case necks next to shoulders by bushings in their FL bushing dies helps center case necks in chamber necks. I asked if standard FL dies without expanders would center case necks on case shoulders then center them in chamber necks when fired. In so many words, their response was no as that short/small unsized "shoulder" on the case neck was better.
Many believe cases rest in the chamber bottom until they expand to chamber limits at peak pressure. Sierra Bullets stated this in their reloading data books for years.
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Marco Califo
New member
Pulldown cases body or shoulder out of spec
I started neck sizing the 7.62 pulldown. I checked them in my Sheridan 308 case gage (with the cut out). Some would not drop into the case gage fully.
To successfully neck-size 50, I had to try 74, and set 24 aside for later body sizing. Well, that got me to order the Redding 308 body sizing die. Those 24 stuck out of the gage by 1/8 - 1/16 of an inch. The 50 good ones dropped right in.
I am thinking this pulldown unfired brass, all head-stamped LC 18 (and thus, not pulled down due to storage time), may have been pulled down due to body diameter being out of spec, and thus rejected by U.S.
I got 250 for $49.99 on sale at Midsouthshootersupply.com. The price went back up to $79.99. I do not think the higher price is a good value, if the sizing was out of spec.
I started neck sizing the 7.62 pulldown. I checked them in my Sheridan 308 case gage (with the cut out). Some would not drop into the case gage fully.
To successfully neck-size 50, I had to try 74, and set 24 aside for later body sizing. Well, that got me to order the Redding 308 body sizing die. Those 24 stuck out of the gage by 1/8 - 1/16 of an inch. The 50 good ones dropped right in.
I am thinking this pulldown unfired brass, all head-stamped LC 18 (and thus, not pulled down due to storage time), may have been pulled down due to body diameter being out of spec, and thus rejected by U.S.
I got 250 for $49.99 on sale at Midsouthshootersupply.com. The price went back up to $79.99. I do not think the higher price is a good value, if the sizing was out of spec.
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Marco Califo
New member
I got out one of my dial micrometers to try to locate the issue. Every measurement shown on the Sierra 5.0 308 diagram was within spec, except for trim to length (length of unloaded brass) was .003 over for the bad cases, and .002 under for the good ones. This seems to confirm Unclenick's comment about neck stretching (and presumed shoulder profile effect). That would not be fixed by body sizing. And neck sizing does not.
I think the outcome, and conclusion, is that I will need to deprime and full length size those bad cases before loading them.
I think the outcome, and conclusion, is that I will need to deprime and full length size those bad cases before loading them.
Marco Califo said:That would not be fixed by body sizing.
I think it should be. The neck hole in the top of the body dies I have are only a couple of thousandths over maximum chamber diameter or 0.001" extra-wide all around. So even though the die fails to directly act on about three-thousandths of the shoulder immediately around the base of a resized neck, it won't easily turn a corner that sharp. I think you'll find you still get the shoulder largely corrected. But try it and see and report back to us. Curious people want to know.
Marco Califo
New member
Quick update
I received the body die and ran one of the bad cases through.
It will go into the case gage, with a little tapping from a rod. Same to get it back out. That is a significant improvement. But not the whole enchilada. I measured the case length before and after it looks like it grew .002" in the body die.
I did them all. Same result.
I also put them all in the collet neck sizing die. That did not change the result above.
I received the body die and ran one of the bad cases through.
It will go into the case gage, with a little tapping from a rod. Same to get it back out. That is a significant improvement. But not the whole enchilada. I measured the case length before and after it looks like it grew .002" in the body die.
I did them all. Same result.
I also put them all in the collet neck sizing die. That did not change the result above.
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Put some Magic Marker on the case to be sure of where it rubs the gauge. It occurs to me that if they first pushed the bullets into the cases to break the seals and then pulled them and if the bullets were stuck hard to the necks, that could have bulged the middles of the cases a little. If so, you could run them into the body die a second time, count to five, withdraw and turn the case 1/3 of a turn and repeat twice so you've run the thing in a total three times. That almost always takes another couple of thousandths off the brass. Or, if they chamber OK, just shoot a load and see if they don't resize normally after that.
Marco Califo
New member
Thanks Unclenick. I will work on that. Don't have a magic marker handy. I do however, have a cutaway gage, that gives me view of the shoulder. The good cases drop in, and there are no gaps visible. The bad ones all show a gap around the shoulder. I am thinking you right earlier about the shoulder getting bent near the corners, by the pulling of the bullets.
I have been putting them into the body die until it hits the shell holder, then remove and spin 1/2 way, repeat. Same with the collet die. But I will try a few again to make sure.
Then, the next time I locate any of my 308 FL sizing dies (regular, x-die, small base, and probably a spare), I will pull or break the decapping pin and try that.
I have been putting them into the body die until it hits the shell holder, then remove and spin 1/2 way, repeat. Same with the collet die. But I will try a few again to make sure.
Then, the next time I locate any of my 308 FL sizing dies (regular, x-die, small base, and probably a spare), I will pull or break the decapping pin and try that.
I bought 250 of those for use in a new AR Marco. Are there any serious flaws with the brass that would prevent it from being used to season a new barrel? I like to wait a couple of hundred rounds get down the tube before starting any accuracy ladders so I am thinking of just waiting till it is once fired and then do a complete case prep
I have seen 1/4 MOA groups shot in fire forming sessions converting hydro formed 6BR brass to 6 dasher so I wonder if you are overthinking this stuff a wee bit too much
I have seen 1/4 MOA groups shot in fire forming sessions converting hydro formed 6BR brass to 6 dasher so I wonder if you are overthinking this stuff a wee bit too much
Marco Califo
New member
I would say the ones that go into a case gage are good to go. I found my full-length RCBS sizing die, and the pin is already not there. So I will try that tonight. I tried 6 more bad ones with the 1/3 turn in both body and collet dies. One went into the gage. 5 no go. I am noticing some tiny tar balls now on cases coming out of the dies.
IDK, maybe full prep from the get go is the way to go. Forget the primers.
I also bought 250 of the LC unprimed new. Hopefully those will be better.
IDK, maybe full prep from the get go is the way to go. Forget the primers.
I also bought 250 of the LC unprimed new. Hopefully those will be better.
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IDK, maybe full prep from the get go is the way to go. Forget the primers.
that could be the smartest ticket right there, just suck it up and get it over with. I picked up a few boxes of $15 a box 7.62 today for doing the initial test shooting. Winchester in the plain box stuff just to check cycling and any seal up any minor gas leaks
Just re read this thread and have decided sight unseen to do a initial full case prep on the whole batch. Do the pockets 100 at a time to spread the pain out. Easier to just give them match brass treatment from the first firing. This isn't 2009 and I have a drawer full of LRP's and this rifle should shoot sub MOA straight from the box
I got mine this afternoon and checked all with a Wilson case gage and a single sided razor blade
Out of 250 cases 2 had mangled case mouths, of those 1 was fixable and the other the shoulder collapsed when I sized it. There is a light coat sealant in the necks which as Uncle Nick pointed out cleanable with mineral spirits if one wants to. I spent about 5 minutes with a piece of Nvr Dull, which is just mineral spirits on cotton batting, just cleaning one neck. Way more effort for what ir is worth in my opinion. I briefly thought about a seeing what a hour in a dry tumbler would do but I don't think it is worth the bother
So I ended up with 249 new .308 cases for $80 bucks. I plan on putting 149 aside. The other 100 will be loaded and shot before getting full case prep. I would buy them again
Edit - the neck sealant comes out fairly easily with a bronze bore brush chucked in a drill but it would probably wear out a few brushes doing 250 cases. I decided to go with the noise and smoke brass prep method then do the primer pocket work and trim routine.
Anyone know what brand primers are in these? Brass colored so I am guessing either Winchester or Remington
Out of 250 cases 2 had mangled case mouths, of those 1 was fixable and the other the shoulder collapsed when I sized it. There is a light coat sealant in the necks which as Uncle Nick pointed out cleanable with mineral spirits if one wants to. I spent about 5 minutes with a piece of Nvr Dull, which is just mineral spirits on cotton batting, just cleaning one neck. Way more effort for what ir is worth in my opinion. I briefly thought about a seeing what a hour in a dry tumbler would do but I don't think it is worth the bother
So I ended up with 249 new .308 cases for $80 bucks. I plan on putting 149 aside. The other 100 will be loaded and shot before getting full case prep. I would buy them again
Edit - the neck sealant comes out fairly easily with a bronze bore brush chucked in a drill but it would probably wear out a few brushes doing 250 cases. I decided to go with the noise and smoke brass prep method then do the primer pocket work and trim routine.
Anyone know what brand primers are in these? Brass colored so I am guessing either Winchester or Remington
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Just loaded my first 50 of these, seating was very smooth with the sealant left in the neck. These are destined for new barrel break in and while I will be shooting them across the chrono for record keeping purposes and a rough load workup I am not expecting them to shoot quite the same as when they are once fired with a detailed match case prep. I think it will be interesting to see what if any difference there will be. On another forum someone speculated that these are Remington primers and in my experience Varget performs best with CCI and Federal primers. I will do a full load development once I do a proper prep and get the barrel seasoned I will eventually do a full primer test
Marco Califo
New member
The primers are CCI milspec primed and loaded at LC. CCI #34 are supposed to be the same spec. But these are primed with real military contract primers. They have relatively harder cups and are magnum primers to ignite the WC846 ball powder.
Marco Califo
New member
The primers and the brass
The primers are CCI mil-spec primed and loaded at LC. CCI #34 are supposed to be the same spec. But these are primed with real military contract primers. They have relatively harder cups and are magnum primers to ignite the WC846 ball powder.
My biggest reason to buy these was because Once-fired LC 7.62 which is available was fired in machine guns [only current chambering], and the brass was puffed in those sloppy easy feed chambers.That makes them difficult to size. And I believe, That process of puffing and then sizing does not do anything good for the brass. Case length grows, and needs to be trimmed; some a lot (20 to 30+ thousandths), some not all. Sure, you can load them for auto-loaders, 100 yard target or steel plates out to 300.
My point is that there are a couple of alternatives:
1.) Match brass in shot in M-14's. Good stuff, fired once
2.) Pull-down brass, not fired, but bullet pulled out can affect the neck. 1/3 of mine the case length was 5 / 1000 longer than the good ones.
3.) Buy new military 7.62 brass like IMI
4.) Buy military surplus ammunition and shoot it. Keep the brass. (AF, for example)
The primers are CCI mil-spec primed and loaded at LC. CCI #34 are supposed to be the same spec. But these are primed with real military contract primers. They have relatively harder cups and are magnum primers to ignite the WC846 ball powder.
My biggest reason to buy these was because Once-fired LC 7.62 which is available was fired in machine guns [only current chambering], and the brass was puffed in those sloppy easy feed chambers.That makes them difficult to size. And I believe, That process of puffing and then sizing does not do anything good for the brass. Case length grows, and needs to be trimmed; some a lot (20 to 30+ thousandths), some not all. Sure, you can load them for auto-loaders, 100 yard target or steel plates out to 300.
My point is that there are a couple of alternatives:
1.) Match brass in shot in M-14's. Good stuff, fired once
2.) Pull-down brass, not fired, but bullet pulled out can affect the neck. 1/3 of mine the case length was 5 / 1000 longer than the good ones.
3.) Buy new military 7.62 brass like IMI
4.) Buy military surplus ammunition and shoot it. Keep the brass. (AF, for example)
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