Sir William
New member
Anybody got a link? Shooting at Post Office north of LA. 3 dead, 1 head trauma. Right across the road from a fire station and there was a hospital a short distance down the road or there would have been 4 dead.
LA Post Office shooting rampage
- Thread starter Sir William
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Sir William
New member
Thank you joab!
stephen426
New member
Another Post Office Shooting
It seems kind of crazy how often these post office shootings occur. What is worse is that it is illegal to carry a firearm into a post office. The crazy thing is that someone who is going to shoot up a post office doesn't care about this law and law abiding citizens will be unarmed victims.
My question is "Do you guys carry regardless of the law or do you accept the risk and obey the law?"
It seems kind of crazy how often these post office shootings occur. What is worse is that it is illegal to carry a firearm into a post office. The crazy thing is that someone who is going to shoot up a post office doesn't care about this law and law abiding citizens will be unarmed victims.
My question is "Do you guys carry regardless of the law or do you accept the risk and obey the law?"
Chris Phelps
New member
I work in the postal center of the federal building. We have metal detectors and guards. Moreso, it is a federal offence to knowingly carry a firearm into a federal building. Given the fact that I would be 100% likely to be caught, and end up in jail for 10 years in doing so... No, I wouldnt even think about CCW into the post office.
threads merged
LATimes story: http://www.latimes.com/news/local/la-013106shooting_wr,0,2060378.story?coll=la-home-headlines
LATimes story: http://www.latimes.com/news/local/la-013106shooting_wr,0,2060378.story?coll=la-home-headlines
It wasn't a large sorting facility. Several of them are almost twice as large. My question is where the armed Postal Police were during this? Or the on-site Postal Inspectors? There should have been at least four armed Postal Police, and at least two Postal Inspectors in the plant. We, I'm a retired 204B supervisor, had response plans in place in Maryland. It would appear that the Plant Manager was incompetent, again.
There have been very few shootings in actual Post Offices, where you would go to mail pieces. The majority were in large facilities, away from the public. As for metal detectors, most small offices don't have them, or armed security. ALL of the sorting facilities do.
This is like the problem the Secret Service faces. If you're willing to die, there isn't any kind of non-"shoot on sight" defense against a successful attack on a person or persons.
A little aside here. I'm willing to bet that the weapon(s) used were legally purchased, after a California mandated DOJ check, and a waiting period. If the government failed so miserably at this, perhaps it should be brought out publicly. If the feds aren't going to provide security, and the state and locals can't prevent such atrocities, it will devolve upon the individual to protect themselves.
There have been very few shootings in actual Post Offices, where you would go to mail pieces. The majority were in large facilities, away from the public. As for metal detectors, most small offices don't have them, or armed security. ALL of the sorting facilities do.
This is like the problem the Secret Service faces. If you're willing to die, there isn't any kind of non-"shoot on sight" defense against a successful attack on a person or persons.
A little aside here. I'm willing to bet that the weapon(s) used were legally purchased, after a California mandated DOJ check, and a waiting period. If the government failed so miserably at this, perhaps it should be brought out publicly. If the feds aren't going to provide security, and the state and locals can't prevent such atrocities, it will devolve upon the individual to protect themselves.
kingudaroad
New member
How can such a seemingly benign job as a postal employee carry such deep emotional consequences? Any current or former USPS employees care to enlighten me?
stephen426
New member
I'm not a postal worker but I have spoken to a few of them about these types of incidents. Sorting is a stressful but monotonous job. Day in and day out, you have to sort tons of mail and you always have deadlines to meet. This doesn't really explain it though since the same does not occur in Fed Ex or UPS.
One theory may be the high number of veterans or former military who work in the post office. I'm sure there are many out there with post traumatic stress disorder who have never been treated.
One theory may be the high number of veterans or former military who work in the post office. I'm sure there are many out there with post traumatic stress disorder who have never been treated.
SevenRoundMags
New member
Impossible! This was a gun free zone! Oh, wait...
In a FREE free world I would carry anywhere and everywhere I go. But since there is a much greater possibility of getting caught with a firearm in a federal facility than there is of a rampage occuring, I think I'm going to obey the law.
If I knew people were walking into post offices carrying guns, I'd start using mail boxes
If I knew people were walking into post offices carrying guns, I'd start using mail boxes
I would never knowingly violate the law. At the same time the question of IS it really illegal to carry in a post office is often tossed about with multiple answers. Some states, like VA I belive, make it illegal to carry in a Federal Building. Others do not.
The Post Office near me is in a not so nice area, part of a stip mall frequented by gang bangers, illegals and other miscreants. I only go into it when I have to due to a package pick up. If I need something else I get it at the PO near my job or elsewhere.
Personally I believe concealed means concealed.
The Post Office near me is in a not so nice area, part of a stip mall frequented by gang bangers, illegals and other miscreants. I only go into it when I have to due to a package pick up. If I need something else I get it at the PO near my job or elsewhere.
Personally I believe concealed means concealed.
stephen426
New member
Quite frankly, I am a bit suprised at the poll results so far. I thought that more people would have the "screw the stupid law, my safety is more important" mentality.
One factor I think that may have influenced is that some people responded as if they were working as a postal worker rather than a customer. I think customers have very few chances of getting caught carrying a concealed weapon. The number of post office shootings are also very low overall and as someone else mentioned, most of them do not occur where the customers are.
Oh well, I guess since the threat is so remote, I guess leaving the gun in the car to mail a package isn't such a bad thing. Getting arrested for carrying a weapon in a federal facility and losing the right to ever own a gun again is a very bad thing. I guess I understand the results a little better.
One factor I think that may have influenced is that some people responded as if they were working as a postal worker rather than a customer. I think customers have very few chances of getting caught carrying a concealed weapon. The number of post office shootings are also very low overall and as someone else mentioned, most of them do not occur where the customers are.
Oh well, I guess since the threat is so remote, I guess leaving the gun in the car to mail a package isn't such a bad thing. Getting arrested for carrying a weapon in a federal facility and losing the right to ever own a gun again is a very bad thing. I guess I understand the results a little better.
I retired from the USPS, after 35 years, this past June. I was a letter carrier, letter carrier technician, and a supervisor in an office that delivered mail into four counties, with five zip codes. 125 routes.
Every minute of your time is accounted for. There is no room for error or delay. We were supposed to receive 90% of our mail by 0600. At 0800, the last 10% was to arrive. Leaving time for your routes varied, based on travel time, volumes of mail, and route traveled. Most of the routes were due out at 1000-1100.
The problem arose nearly daily with the 0600 truck arriving at 0615-0630. Then, the 0800 truck arrived at 0845-0900, and had about 40% of the volume aboard. Much of it was unsorted beyond the zip code, so the clerks, already short-handed because of the "decreasing volumes of unworked mail" had to sort it by hand.
When the mail was finally sorted, it could be as late as 1030-1100. The carriers now had to put it in delivery sequence manually, then pull the routes down and hit the street to deliver. That was often between 1230-1300. The people would normally get off between 1600-1630. Leaving two hours late meant working until 1800. The postal management had decreed that they wanted all of the carriers back by 1700, and were too busy trying to obtain bonuses to allow common sense to prevail. The constant harrassment by the managers, and many supervisors, led to a stressful workplace.
We complained bitterly about the inability of the sorting facility to provide timely delivery of the mails. They fianlly told us to "get over it". My response to the District Manager, via teleconference, was to remember those words the next time he wanted people back at 1700 hours.
Try living in an enviornment where the management has been taught that you NEVER do eight hours worth of work. Annual route inspections notwithstanding, you just didn't do eight hours worth of work. Now, do that for thirty plus years, with your own lives ups and downs thrown in, and see how you feel.
The saving grace was job security, good wages, sick and annual leave, and paid holidays. When I joined, I could also retire on a living wage at 55 with 30 years of service. I lived through it without shooting anyone.
By the way, did anyone see the description of the shooter? She was "a 44 year old former employee on leave for psychiatric problems." Now, I don't know about you, but how can a FORMERemployee be on leave for anything? I thought that the usual definition of former meant that they had either resigned their position, or been discharged from it.
Every minute of your time is accounted for. There is no room for error or delay. We were supposed to receive 90% of our mail by 0600. At 0800, the last 10% was to arrive. Leaving time for your routes varied, based on travel time, volumes of mail, and route traveled. Most of the routes were due out at 1000-1100.
The problem arose nearly daily with the 0600 truck arriving at 0615-0630. Then, the 0800 truck arrived at 0845-0900, and had about 40% of the volume aboard. Much of it was unsorted beyond the zip code, so the clerks, already short-handed because of the "decreasing volumes of unworked mail" had to sort it by hand.
When the mail was finally sorted, it could be as late as 1030-1100. The carriers now had to put it in delivery sequence manually, then pull the routes down and hit the street to deliver. That was often between 1230-1300. The people would normally get off between 1600-1630. Leaving two hours late meant working until 1800. The postal management had decreed that they wanted all of the carriers back by 1700, and were too busy trying to obtain bonuses to allow common sense to prevail. The constant harrassment by the managers, and many supervisors, led to a stressful workplace.
We complained bitterly about the inability of the sorting facility to provide timely delivery of the mails. They fianlly told us to "get over it". My response to the District Manager, via teleconference, was to remember those words the next time he wanted people back at 1700 hours.
Try living in an enviornment where the management has been taught that you NEVER do eight hours worth of work. Annual route inspections notwithstanding, you just didn't do eight hours worth of work. Now, do that for thirty plus years, with your own lives ups and downs thrown in, and see how you feel.
The saving grace was job security, good wages, sick and annual leave, and paid holidays. When I joined, I could also retire on a living wage at 55 with 30 years of service. I lived through it without shooting anyone.
By the way, did anyone see the description of the shooter? She was "a 44 year old former employee on leave for psychiatric problems." Now, I don't know about you, but how can a FORMERemployee be on leave for anything? I thought that the usual definition of former meant that they had either resigned their position, or been discharged from it.
As was posted in the Gun Zone link, I believe that most of these "you cant carry here " rules have the "any other lawful purpose" tag at the bottom if you read them. Same goes for schools, at least here in PA.
Unless they have a metal detector, I usually dont pay attention to any signs. If they do have a detector, I tell them I want to check my gun at the security booth. I had federal jury duty a few years back, and because I wore a pistol, I got preferential treatment at the court house. I didnt have to wait in the long lines and dump my pockets, just walk by everyone and show the marshal my permit and license. I got a personal lock box to put all my stuff in, including my gun and reload.
Unless they have a metal detector, I usually dont pay attention to any signs. If they do have a detector, I tell them I want to check my gun at the security booth. I had federal jury duty a few years back, and because I wore a pistol, I got preferential treatment at the court house. I didnt have to wait in the long lines and dump my pockets, just walk by everyone and show the marshal my permit and license. I got a personal lock box to put all my stuff in, including my gun and reload.