Excellent point. SA is the number defensive tool in the box of tricks to staying alive.
Change is in the air? http://www.leginfo.ca.gov/pub/09-10/bill/asm/ab_1151-1200/ab_1167_bill_20090227_introduced.html
La-la land
- Thread starter chris in va
- Start date
Excellent point. SA is the number defensive tool in the box of tricks to staying alive.
Change is in the air? http://www.leginfo.ca.gov/pub/09-10/bill/asm/ab_1151-1200/ab_1167_bill_20090227_introduced.html
Originally posted by Wildalaska
While tone is often difficult to read over a message board, if the young lady in question was as condescending as she appeared to me in the OP, I'd say she does need to touch base in reality. To choose not to carry a gun because you don't think you'll need it is a personal choice that I can respect. To show such obvious disdain for someone who does not make the same choice shows closed-mindedness and that I do not respect.
While tone is often difficult to read over a message board, if the young lady in question was as condescending as she appeared to me in the OP, I'd say she does need to touch base in reality. To choose not to carry a gun because you don't think you'll need it is a personal choice that I can respect. To show such obvious disdain for someone who does not make the same choice shows closed-mindedness and that I do not respect.
While I can appreciate the opinion of our alaskan resident (what is the population up there? 550 people and 7 million caribou?)....plus, it's too friggen cold for people to commit crimes up there 
I got a kick out of this thread, only because my wife's little sister said the EXACT thing to me about 3 months ago when she was home from college for the weekend. I had come back from an approximate 7 hour trip, and had a pistol with me... she seemed more concerned about the fact that I was carrying a pistol rather than any potential for something to occur
I got a kick out of this thread, only because my wife's little sister said the EXACT thing to me about 3 months ago when she was home from college for the weekend. I had come back from an approximate 7 hour trip, and had a pistol with me... she seemed more concerned about the fact that I was carrying a pistol rather than any potential for something to occur
Wildalaska
Moderator
Actually, heavily armed, CCW without permit, libertarian Alaska has an obnoxiously violent high crime rate...I think its higher than many controlled places...
WildbutstatsaremeaninglessAlaska TM
chris in va
New member
WA, normally I like your 'get a grip' posts, but in no way did I "denigrate the intellectual capability" of her daughter.
In fact, she's incredibly book smart, having aced just about every honors class in high school and doing very well in a difficult college here in KY, about to earn her bachelors degree.
Ass-u-ming just makes...oh nevermind.
She's been to the range with us a few times, and I've taught her gun safety. Rather than just let it go and understand that it *could* be a necessity one day (like a fire extinguisher), she's got to make a remark like this every time I try to make sure they're safe.
In fact, she's incredibly book smart, having aced just about every honors class in high school and doing very well in a difficult college here in KY, about to earn her bachelors degree.
Ass-u-ming just makes...oh nevermind.
She's been to the range with us a few times, and I've taught her gun safety. Rather than just let it go and understand that it *could* be a necessity one day (like a fire extinguisher), she's got to make a remark like this every time I try to make sure they're safe.
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The thing to remember sometimes is how the world looks from the bad guy's perspective: If one person in ten is armed, then what are my chances that this person is it. Adjust accordingly for where you live and you start to see a picture. I don't need a gun, because I know that most of my neighbors do! However, I do have guns because I like them and they are interesting. Having a gun is like eating meat: If you don't want to, you shouldn't have to! There are plenty of people who do.
Wildalaska
Moderator
Then you need to reread your post.
Lets take it one step further...are folks, like this young lady, who don't think it is necessary to have a gun, in lala land?
WildisntthatanawfullotoffolkswepaintwithanastycolourAlaska TM
Shadi Khalil
New member
Some people are just not comfortable around guns or don't see a need for them to be carried. I am not insulted or surprised when people look at me the way they do when it becomes known I do carry. Sometimes there just really is not a need. Case in point: This weekend my GF and I were staying in a nice hotel in a very quite area. The hotel was gated, had rent a cops on patrol in golf carts and lots of video surveillance. Around 2am, after finishing a movie, I decided to run to the car and have a smoke. As I was going out the door I asked my GF to pass me my Sig on the nightstand. She started to get up and then stopped and said "do you really think you'll need it?" Of course I didn't need it and I even felt sort of silly when I started considering our surroundings and the kind of threat that could possibly be posed. Well I went without and somehow, I made it.
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I tend to agree with WildAlaska here. Many of the postings on the handgun forums deal with concealed carry, and the general assumption seems to be that danger lurks around every corner, and if you don't carry, you're risking your life and those of your loved ones. Although I've owned guns (mostly handguns) for most of my life and shoot on a regular basis, I rarely ever carry. Why not? Because, based on my particular lifestyle, I don't consider the risk of going around unarmed to be significant. I'd venture to say that the vast majority of people go through life without carrying a firearm, and suffer no adverse consequences. I don't think this necessarily means that they live in a bubble and don't face up to reality. I think it probably means they just have a less pessimistic view of the world than folks who see threats all around them. And the odds are greatly in their favor that they'll go through life without ever having to use a firearm to protect themselves or their loved ones.
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chris in va
New member
Doesn't have to do with pessimism, just look at the local police blotter. Crime happens all around us, but most people never know about it.
Even my friend has come around over the years. She used to make fun of my carrying, until she noticed (on her own) that 'stuff' was happening practically right next to us. The final straw was when a couple scruffy guys took interest in her 12yo out front of a 7-Eleven when we were having ice cream. A car kept circling the place at the same time.
Now she wants her own CC permit.
"And the odds are greatly in their favor that they'll go through life without ever having to use a firearm to protect themselves or their loved ones."
True. It's nice when one is on the right side of the odds.
That's why so many travel with the herd.
It's the very young, the very old, and the ones who travel at the edge of the herd that get eaten.
So it's usually best to stay near the middle of the herd.
Will
True. It's nice when one is on the right side of the odds.
That's why so many travel with the herd.
It's the very young, the very old, and the ones who travel at the edge of the herd that get eaten.
So it's usually best to stay near the middle of the herd.
Will
+1
There is always a risk of being struck by lightning or eaten by a shark although there are means of mitigating risk besides walking around in a lightning proof shark cage.
Even if you do carry, good situational awareness and avoiding trouble areas, situations, and people should keep 99.9999% of CC'ers from ever needing to use it. Random crime is truly frightening, but most crime is not random.
It's a bit strange to me when some on these forums talk about the dangers of leaving the house unarmed, yet live in an area where getting hit by space debris is more statistically likely than being murdered. Somehow my blonde, 99lb sister was able to live in bad part of an economically depressed, high crime, majority non-white city without feeling the need to be armed with a firearm at every waking moment. Was she an oblivious Sheep or did she have a firm grasp on the statistical risk and feel comfortable enough living within it? Was she just lucky or did she behave smartly?
I have to agree with WildAlaska et al
La-la land.
If she believes that she doesn't need a gun, she lives in La-la land.
http://www.answers.com/topic/la-la-land
http://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/La-la_land
Neither of these definitions seem very flattering to the intelligence of the intended recipient.
I have to agree that we as a community have a tendency to sometimes belittle those who do not agree with us. Not always, but it does come out. This seems somewhat common in online communities, with Linux "experts" being the worst (my opinion).
The title of the post set the tone. The tone wasn't exactly respectful.
VR
Matt
La-la land.
If she believes that she doesn't need a gun, she lives in La-la land.
http://www.answers.com/topic/la-la-land
http://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/La-la_land
Neither of these definitions seem very flattering to the intelligence of the intended recipient.
I have to agree that we as a community have a tendency to sometimes belittle those who do not agree with us. Not always, but it does come out. This seems somewhat common in online communities, with Linux "experts" being the worst (my opinion).
The title of the post set the tone. The tone wasn't exactly respectful.
VR
Matt
That's the point...
Unless you engage in risky activities, like drinking in bars late at night in high crime areas, you probably won't end up as the target of a criminal. It's always possible that you could be the victim of a random crime, of course, but it's not a risk that keeps most folks awake at night. If I'm going to be out late at night away from home, I will usually carry. However, if I'm going down to the auto parts store on Saturday morning, I won't bother. It's possible I could be targeted by a criminal outside the parts store, but it's pretty unlikely. So I balance the inconvenience of carrying a handgun against the risk that I'll likely need it, and in most cases, I just leave it at home. I don't consider sensibly assessing the risk based on past experience and local knowledge to be acting like a "sheeple" or "living in la la land".
I disagree with WildAlaska here.
We have a mass media that would just love for us to soft sell the possession of handguns to stop crime.
My post very bluntly assumes that all women and older people ( and us too)are a target of crime because it is a fact of life today.
Three examples-
Twenty years ago,my brothers best friends wife(who was pregnant) went to Marumsco Plaza in Woodbridge Va. to do some shopping.
She is a very beautiful woman and was very much so then too,even pregnant.
She still liked to look very nice,wearing dresses and heels that showed her as a sexy young mother to be she would soon be.
She gets to her car,opens the door (the time is around 2:00 pm in the afternoon!),leans into the car to put her purse in the passenger seat.
Immediately a guy comes up behind her and tries to push her into the car and car jack her.
She fought like hell to stop the guy from pushing her into the car and managed to roll over on the drivers seat and punch this piece of xxxx three times in the chest with both sets of heels screaming like as she was a woman being attacked in danger of not only losing her life but that of her new soon to be child.
After the third time this young lady slammed those heels into this guys chest and with people now starting to notice what was going on,the guy ran away.
Second example-
My dad ,a retired Master Sargeant in the army ,now deceased,God Rest Him,at the time about sixty two years old,was driving down through North Carolina late one night going back to his Mom's home place.
A pickup truck began to try to run my Dad off the road.
There were,from what he said,at least three men in the cab of the pickup truck.
My pop was nobody to mess with behind the wheel of a car.
He blasted away from them and left them in the dirt.
But as soon as he slowed down,they caught right back up with him.
And again they pulled up beside him and tried to push his car off the road.
Well,I had found a great deal on a Charter Arms 38 revolver at a old gun store ( BB Guns) in Woodbridge (now a Dixie Bones bbq restaurant).
He was'nt in the market but when he heard the price,he bought it.
And this night he would use it to save his life.
He pulled out that 38,leveled at the passenger side pickup truck door and emptied all five shots in that door.
The pickup ran off the road to the other side of the road to get away from him and my dad got to his mom's house another eighty miles down the road o.k.
Later he would hear from people that knew these guys that they were bad hombres,just looking for trouble,which that night they found.
I am glad that I got that extra time with my Dad and glad that my best friends wife fought back and won against a determined attacker.
Third Example-
Over the years, I have been and some of my other acquaintences have been through some close calls and especially one girl; I know,was through a truely horrible incident in D.C.
Her name is Heather.
She worked at a D.C. office furniture designing firm in Washington D.C.
She was in Washington D.C. with her fiance and they left a bar late at night and walked to his suv to go home.
Well,they got carjacked.
Her boyfriend was shot dead in front of her eyes.
She was shot several times in the body,once as she lay bleeding and pleading for her life on the ground.
The car jackers got her car and got away scot free as far as I know.
I saw her a year later back at her old job but that damage was done.
You could see she would never be the bright and joyful person she once was.
All I could say,without bringing up the incident was,"Glad to see you back Heather."
She gave a dim smile and went on her way.
The bottom line is that we cannot ever know when the threat will turn into a fight for life and death.
We must always tell those we love the truth that the world is a wild place.
You can have fun,you can trust people but you must always be aware of what people are doing around you.
If at all possible,you must have something with you (pepper spray,gun,knife,club,your keys,anything) that can give you some form of advantage, should you be forced into a situation you tried to avoid at all costs.
And caution is always preferable to disregarding what your senses are telling you is a 'just not right' situation.
Whether it be going to your car and catching the stare of a strange man in the parking lot,driving down the road and seeing a pickup truck driving crazy fast behind you or just walking away from a bar at night.
Alot of the time,if the soon to be victim changes their approach to the area where the crime is to occur,it won't occur.
If the victim acts differently,more aware with their hand in their purse or pocket possibly holding a gun as they go,the crime will not occur.
The chance that you will face a potentially life changing encounter with a thieving,law breaking so and so are not as remote as you think.
And today,criminals have less reservations about doing what ever they please.
I will continue to take all potential criminal encounter situaitons seriously.
Last example-I don't want to have to kill some dumb idiot for trying to steal my new trailer or my gas grill.
The trailer now is chained to my garage and has the wheels chained to the trailer so it cannot be rolled even if they can get it free.
And our gas grill is also chained to the porch.
Now my trailer has stopped moving sideways at night from it being yanked to free it from the garage and my grill should hopefully not be stolen as well.
They did get eight of the carabiners I used to clip a tarp on my trailer but the tarp is gone,replaced with trash cans only.
But more importantly,because I have made my home less of a target,these dirtbags will need to go somewhere else to steal something.
And that means,hopefully, I won't have to meet them outside my door,escorting my wife to her car in the morning.
I have several goddaughters that my friend and his wife have also pounded into their heads that the world is a dangersous place as well.
He put a stockade fence around his backyard that concealed their play area from a main road when they were small children.
He and his wife have always left them with relatives or proven good people to watch over them if they went somewhere which they did'nt do that much.
Usually one of them was with their daughters.
Today,they are smart and very aware young ladies not paranoid at all but aware.
So I want to tell every person I can reach with the internet.
Be aware- make good judgements-actually make decisions about what you see and feel around you and in front of you-and if you feel the need,please get some form of self defense and the training necessary to make it work.
Whether it's pepper spray,a gun a knife or just getting some co workers to walk with you to your car at might -look at your the surroundings you will be going into and decide on a good defensive plan of action.
Sometimes just putting on the porch light before you go outside can prevent a crime from happening.
But no porch light will stop a determined criminal.
We have a mass media that would just love for us to soft sell the possession of handguns to stop crime.
My post very bluntly assumes that all women and older people ( and us too)are a target of crime because it is a fact of life today.
Three examples-
Twenty years ago,my brothers best friends wife(who was pregnant) went to Marumsco Plaza in Woodbridge Va. to do some shopping.
She is a very beautiful woman and was very much so then too,even pregnant.
She still liked to look very nice,wearing dresses and heels that showed her as a sexy young mother to be she would soon be.
She gets to her car,opens the door (the time is around 2:00 pm in the afternoon!),leans into the car to put her purse in the passenger seat.
Immediately a guy comes up behind her and tries to push her into the car and car jack her.
She fought like hell to stop the guy from pushing her into the car and managed to roll over on the drivers seat and punch this piece of xxxx three times in the chest with both sets of heels screaming like as she was a woman being attacked in danger of not only losing her life but that of her new soon to be child.
After the third time this young lady slammed those heels into this guys chest and with people now starting to notice what was going on,the guy ran away.
Second example-
My dad ,a retired Master Sargeant in the army ,now deceased,God Rest Him,at the time about sixty two years old,was driving down through North Carolina late one night going back to his Mom's home place.
A pickup truck began to try to run my Dad off the road.
There were,from what he said,at least three men in the cab of the pickup truck.
My pop was nobody to mess with behind the wheel of a car.
He blasted away from them and left them in the dirt.
But as soon as he slowed down,they caught right back up with him.
And again they pulled up beside him and tried to push his car off the road.
Well,I had found a great deal on a Charter Arms 38 revolver at a old gun store ( BB Guns) in Woodbridge (now a Dixie Bones bbq restaurant).
He was'nt in the market but when he heard the price,he bought it.
And this night he would use it to save his life.
He pulled out that 38,leveled at the passenger side pickup truck door and emptied all five shots in that door.
The pickup ran off the road to the other side of the road to get away from him and my dad got to his mom's house another eighty miles down the road o.k.
Later he would hear from people that knew these guys that they were bad hombres,just looking for trouble,which that night they found.
I am glad that I got that extra time with my Dad and glad that my best friends wife fought back and won against a determined attacker.
Third Example-
Over the years, I have been and some of my other acquaintences have been through some close calls and especially one girl; I know,was through a truely horrible incident in D.C.
Her name is Heather.
She worked at a D.C. office furniture designing firm in Washington D.C.
She was in Washington D.C. with her fiance and they left a bar late at night and walked to his suv to go home.
Well,they got carjacked.
Her boyfriend was shot dead in front of her eyes.
She was shot several times in the body,once as she lay bleeding and pleading for her life on the ground.
The car jackers got her car and got away scot free as far as I know.
I saw her a year later back at her old job but that damage was done.
You could see she would never be the bright and joyful person she once was.
All I could say,without bringing up the incident was,"Glad to see you back Heather."
She gave a dim smile and went on her way.
The bottom line is that we cannot ever know when the threat will turn into a fight for life and death.
We must always tell those we love the truth that the world is a wild place.
You can have fun,you can trust people but you must always be aware of what people are doing around you.
If at all possible,you must have something with you (pepper spray,gun,knife,club,your keys,anything) that can give you some form of advantage, should you be forced into a situation you tried to avoid at all costs.
And caution is always preferable to disregarding what your senses are telling you is a 'just not right' situation.
Whether it be going to your car and catching the stare of a strange man in the parking lot,driving down the road and seeing a pickup truck driving crazy fast behind you or just walking away from a bar at night.
Alot of the time,if the soon to be victim changes their approach to the area where the crime is to occur,it won't occur.
If the victim acts differently,more aware with their hand in their purse or pocket possibly holding a gun as they go,the crime will not occur.
The chance that you will face a potentially life changing encounter with a thieving,law breaking so and so are not as remote as you think.
And today,criminals have less reservations about doing what ever they please.
I will continue to take all potential criminal encounter situaitons seriously.
Last example-I don't want to have to kill some dumb idiot for trying to steal my new trailer or my gas grill.
The trailer now is chained to my garage and has the wheels chained to the trailer so it cannot be rolled even if they can get it free.
And our gas grill is also chained to the porch.
Now my trailer has stopped moving sideways at night from it being yanked to free it from the garage and my grill should hopefully not be stolen as well.
They did get eight of the carabiners I used to clip a tarp on my trailer but the tarp is gone,replaced with trash cans only.
But more importantly,because I have made my home less of a target,these dirtbags will need to go somewhere else to steal something.
And that means,hopefully, I won't have to meet them outside my door,escorting my wife to her car in the morning.
I have several goddaughters that my friend and his wife have also pounded into their heads that the world is a dangersous place as well.
He put a stockade fence around his backyard that concealed their play area from a main road when they were small children.
He and his wife have always left them with relatives or proven good people to watch over them if they went somewhere which they did'nt do that much.
Usually one of them was with their daughters.
Today,they are smart and very aware young ladies not paranoid at all but aware.
So I want to tell every person I can reach with the internet.
Be aware- make good judgements-actually make decisions about what you see and feel around you and in front of you-and if you feel the need,please get some form of self defense and the training necessary to make it work.
Whether it's pepper spray,a gun a knife or just getting some co workers to walk with you to your car at might -look at your the surroundings you will be going into and decide on a good defensive plan of action.
Sometimes just putting on the porch light before you go outside can prevent a crime from happening.
But no porch light will stop a determined criminal.
Wildalaska
Moderator
Nope.Not borne out by facts or statistics.
WildandiwontcommentonyourexamplesAlaska TM
You just described my middle daughter... mostly. But I'm thankful her husband is a little more cynical.
I have no problem with folks who will not, or do not chose to carry. It is their perogative. But LOML and I have been around long enough to see what has already changed in our world, and we're both realistic enough to know where it appears to be leading. As a result, we both carry. Our perogative. Not because we wish to, but because we feel we need to. Paranoid? No, I don't think so. Prepared? Absolutely!