L E O carrying a revolver

[stagpanther]

I'm not a handgun guy--much less know what LE goes through, but I do have or have had quite a few different wheel guns and semi-auto's. I'd give a slight edge to my confidence in a wheel gun in reliability/less stuff to fail. Semi-auto's I'd give the nod to as "being more accessible to a wider range of shooting abilities." I'm not a very good shot with either--but I can see that a good wheel gun probably has a slight advantage in terms of accuracy--given enough practice by the shooter. I'm guessing the semi's have the option of laying down "suppression fire" better than a more studied and precise shot selection that might be the preferred approach of a wheel gun.

 

[stagpanther]

I had nine rounds total, but only five were suitable for elk. ...And only three of the five were intended for elk.
Three rounds.
I left the truck with just three rounds intended for the job at hand, and knew that the only way they wouldn't be enough was if I seriously screwed the pooch at least twelve different ways.

If I had been the average elk hunter with a bolt action, that elk probably would have gotten five or more bullets (if what they were shooting could have gone through the trees that the .444 Marlin did ... but, again ... another story).
If I had been the average elk hunter with a semi-auto, the magazine surely would have been emptied ... possibly more than once.
But, having a single-shot in my hands, the first shot was decisively fatal. A follow-up shot was made simply to ensure that the bull expired quickly and didn't run off.

No offense Franken...but I think you might want to reconsider where you hunt!

 

[Unconventional]

Why does the comparison have have to be "young greenhorn incompetent guy with polymer" vs "street hardened veteren no-mistake-Jake with a wheelgun"?

 

[Fishbed77]

Why does the comparison have have to be "young greenhorn incompetent guy with polymer" vs "street hardened veteren no-mistake-Jake with a wheelgun"?

Because of the particular forum you are in.

Go to the semi-auto forum and the prevailing opinion will be reversed to "high-speed low-drag no-nonsense operator with polymer" vs "out-of-touch nostalgic old-timer with a wheelgun."

 

[Nanuk]

DPris, Agree 100%. Your mirrors my experience.

The guy with a single-shot rifle will nearly always fill his tag ... with ONE shot.
Yet, many of the guys with bolt actions will shoot AT animals (not shoot animals, but shoot AT them) until they finally land something that allows a follow-up shot (or six) and moderately easy recovery.

I must be the exception to the rule. I used a Remington 742 in 30-06 until I literally wore it out. I shot LOTS of deer with it. One of the guys I used to hunt with comented " I don't know why you carry that semi auto, you only shoot once". I have also found single shots to be somewhat finicky about accuracy.

 

[Unconventional]

Because of the particular forum you are in.

Go to the semi-auto forum and the prevailing opinion will be reversed to "high-speed low-drag no-nonsense operator with polymer" vs "out-of-touch nostalgic old-timer with a wheelgun."

Good point!

I simply figured that the discussion was about the weapon, not the one operating it.

 

[DPris]

During the transition period, when I was carrying my 25-5 & qualifying next to autos, I outshot at least half of the guys with autos.

It doesn't even have to be grizzled vet vs second week rookie.
It can be simply a dedicated revolver guy or gal who knows that revolver vs half of the department who only carry an auto because they have to carry a gun at work & it's mandatory to shoot it a couple times a year. Or however many times a year.

This does not have to deteriorate into the impassioned shooting wars of the 1980s.
The auto has certain limited advantages in certain limited situations.
The primary weapon, srsly, remains the brain.
The revolver CAN still handle the job.

And the idea of suppressive fire with a handgun is Hollywood.
Denis

 

[briandg]

Frank, I feel the same way about the single shot. One shot one kill is how I want it to be. carrying a load in my magazine and eight in my carrier is far more than I want to carry, but I do anyway, because I am so paranoid. I can't go out without backup.

If I go out to have a cigar, I am going to smoke one, but I still carry three. I only need one lighter, but what if they don't work when I sit down? what if the second one runs out of gas, too? All of those extra rounds are dead weight, might as well carry a sandbag. Someone who carries them for a signal tool maybe should pack a small pistol and a box or two of ammunition for it.

 

[Fishbed77]

Good point!

I simply figured that the discussion was about the weapon, not the one operating it.

These can't be separated.

Without the operator, the weapon just sits on a shelf doing nothing.

 

[stagpanther]

And the idea of suppressive fire with a handgun is Hollywood.

Good point--bad choice of words on my part. What I have seen, however, at a range I used to shoot at was a couple of LE agencies bring out guys that were being tested--I don't know if it was a "annual qualification" or graduation test; but what I often saw was standing freehand drills were the shooter would draw fire rapidly at a man target at roughly 10 yds +/- and would be timed, the amount of impacts within a certain radius being measured. My impression was that the focus of the test was both speed and acceptable accuracy with maximum amount of bullets on target.

 

[DPris]

That's unfortunate, if any agency's training that way.
An excellent method of reinforcing spray & pray.

We used to teach "Fire till the threat goes down".
This new stand & let 'er rip, if really being used in training, would instill, intentionally or not, a subconscious mindset under pressure to fire as fast as possible till you reach an empty pistol.

That is not an effective way of handling a shooting situation.
Denis

 

[Unconventional]

These can't be separated.

Without the operator, the weapon just sits on a shelf doing nothing.

No, not what I meant, and rather absurdly oversimplified.

 

[stagpanther]

That's unfortunate, if any agency's training that way.
An excellent method of reinforcing spray & pray.

We used to teach "Fire till the threat goes down".
This new stand & let 'er rip, if really being used in training, would instill, intentionally or not, a subconscious mindset under pressure to fire as fast as possible till you reach an empty pistol.

That is not an effective way of handling a shooting situation.
Denis

Can't say for sure that it was "official" training or not--the guys were friendly but didn't seem like they wanted to talk to on-lookers. One of the outfits was ICE--I think the other was a sheriff's department.

 

[Sharkbite]

what I often saw was standing freehand drills were the shooter would draw fire rapidly at a man target at roughly 10 yds +/- and would be timed, the amount of impacts within a certain radius being measured.

Its been common practice for decades for a qual course to entail shooting x number of shots in x number of seconds. Nothing new there.

 

[DPris]

Yes, it has.
But in the context of "suppressive fire" that Stag was mentioning, I assumed he meant something more than "On the whistle, draw, fire two rounds, go to low ready, scan, re-holster." as far as timed fire goes.
Denis

 

[stagpanther]

I already apologized for that But like you yourself said--once time comes into play it seems the motivation to empty the magazine also goes up.

 

[DPris]

No further apology necessary, just trying to clarify what you saw.
Was it a full mag dump in a timed run, or merely a couple timed shots in a regulated successive firing pattern?
Denis

 

[Nick_C_S]

77 responses. I think I broke the internet

Interesting reading. Good stuff.

 

[DPris]

Could easily hit 80.
Denis

 

[stagpanther]

Was it a full mag dump in a timed run, or merely a couple timed shots in a regulated successive firing pattern?

I'm guessing it was full mag dump--in fact I want to say multi mag dump and reload was part of at least one exercise/test. It seemed pretty regimented--even the down time between shooting looked like it was being timed. To be honest I was shooting too a few lanes over so I didn't watch them all the way through.