lifesizepotato
New member
745SW said:
There is absolutely and literally no flex. A dual bar design would not improve it, so the current design is not compromised outside of the academic hypotheticals you're trying to construct.
Korriphila HSP 701
- Thread starter bac1023
- Start date
There is absolutely and literally no flex. A dual bar design would not improve it, so the current design is not compromised outside of the academic hypotheticals you're trying to construct.
Walt Sherrill
New member
745SW said:
But everything else won't be equal... And if the dual-sided trigger bar assembly is made from the same material, but is less thick than a single-sided trigger bar, why will the materials used in a dual-sided trigger bar be less likely to flex than a thicker single-sided trigger bar? The metal used in these applications isn't as flexible as you seem to suggest -- and gun designers DO understand what's needed.
Some guns have TWO hammer hooks (i.e.,two points of hammer/sear interface) while other designs use a slightly different approach and have a single point of hammer-sear contact. That one point of contact can be very narrow or very wide, depending on the design.
If there's only one point of hammer/sear contact, the trigger bar design seems less important than if there are two, because even if there IS flex in the trigger bar (not likely, given the materials used on most trigger bars) the sear and hammer are still going to move crisply, as they're kept precisely aligned by the sear assembly and the hammer assembly (how they are mounted) in the frame, and that doesn't allow the trigger bar to have much effect on alignment.
- The gunsmiths at the U.S. Army's Marksmanship Unit have gotten great results with the Beretta M9, which has a single-sided trigger bar.
- Wilson Combat seems to be doing a slightly less-involved civilian version of that type of tuning, now, on their Beretta, too.
- The SIG P-210 has a single-sided trigger bar, and it's renowned for it's accuracy -- and long service life. It was designed as a SERVICE PISTOL!
- The SIG X-Five and X-Six guns all have a single-sided trigger bars, and they are arguably as accurate as (or more accurate than) some of the best Bullseye 1911s. They also have a service pistol pedigree, but the X-series never were service pistols, per se.
- And there are the many handguns BAC1023 has discussed (and done reviews of on other forums). Not all of them have two-sided trigger bars. All of them are outstanding performers; all of them have outstanding triggers!
Your intuitive knowledge of how guns work and your understanding of the materials and techniques needed to make a gun perform well doesn't really trump the demonstrated performance of the guns cited above.
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Liebenberg makes an outstanding 1911, without doubt one of the best in the industry. I think refinement approaches and Korriphila and I think the fitting of the parts is probably about as good. Considering all Korriphila parts are machined from steel blocks, it's hard for much of any 1911 to compare in that regard.
While Paul has a unique flare that sets his guns apart from a standard 1911A1, the Korriphila is Budischowsky's own design. Again, it's hard for any 1911 to compete on that scale.
Hope this helps...
It's not hard to give a 1911 a consistent trigger pull.
I'd be lying if I told you that I understood what point you're trying to make here. Could you please explain in layman's terms the meaning of your posts?
The trigger on the Korriphila is one of the nicest DA/SA triggers I own and I own quite a few. To use your word, it's not only great, but also very consistent.
LockedBreech
New member
Always worth the read, bac.
I would like to get the opportunity some day to try the trigger on a DA/SA Korriphila. Since I generally prefer DA/SA to SAO, my quest has always been to try and find DA/SA pistol that feels like my Belgian Hi-Power in single action mode, yet has a smooth, reasonable length pull in double action. So far, the best I've experienced is the trigger on my Tanfoglio Stock 10mm.
Here's a range report my friend wrote up after we were done shooting today...
http://www.glocktalk.com/threads/korriphila-range-day.1594373/
http://www.glocktalk.com/threads/korriphila-range-day.1594373/
Sorry doesn't do anything for me. Looks like a blocky Walther.
I am curious as to what you gave for it?
Jeff Cooper 1st considered this pistol to be a "crunchenticker." That was not a positive comment.
"In view of the continuous complaints we get about the sale price of the Steyr Scout, we now offer a proper response. It seems that Herr Budischowsky of Eislingen, Germany, is now offering what he considers to be the pistol to end all pistols. This is the "Korriphila Model HSP 701" and its retail price in Germany is 15,900 Deutsch Marks. (Last we heard there were about 1.7 DM to a US dollar.) This, of course, is in its deluxe version in solid Damascus steel. Its less ornamental brother in plain blued steel is way down at DM 8,000. Basically it is a 9mm crunchenticker, but it may be offered in the future in a major caliber. I do not know if Herr Budischowsky is taking orders at this time, but you might check with him at the SHOT Show."
http://myweb.cebridge.net/mkeithr/Jeff/jeff6_10.html
Looks like Jeff Cooper was later given one in 45 acp for review and liked it.
http://larvatus.livejournal.com/488294.html
It reminds me of a Stery GB. Still doesn't blow my skirt up.
I remember finally getting my hands on a Sig 220 in 45 acp and not caring for it at all. Crunchenticker - would be a good description of the trigger. To me the trigger felt springy in both SA and DA.
I'd always read that the the Sig 220 "was the next best thing to sliced bread." I finally realized why so many gun writers loved the Sig 220. The reason was it worked out of the box with Hollow Point 45 acp. To get a Colt 1911 to work reliably with fmj ball much less jhp you needed to send it off to a custom gunsmith. The Sig was one of the 1st 45's that was actually out of the box reliable - no "break in" required.
I am curious as to what you gave for it?
Jeff Cooper 1st considered this pistol to be a "crunchenticker." That was not a positive comment.
"In view of the continuous complaints we get about the sale price of the Steyr Scout, we now offer a proper response. It seems that Herr Budischowsky of Eislingen, Germany, is now offering what he considers to be the pistol to end all pistols. This is the "Korriphila Model HSP 701" and its retail price in Germany is 15,900 Deutsch Marks. (Last we heard there were about 1.7 DM to a US dollar.) This, of course, is in its deluxe version in solid Damascus steel. Its less ornamental brother in plain blued steel is way down at DM 8,000. Basically it is a 9mm crunchenticker, but it may be offered in the future in a major caliber. I do not know if Herr Budischowsky is taking orders at this time, but you might check with him at the SHOT Show."
http://myweb.cebridge.net/mkeithr/Jeff/jeff6_10.html
Looks like Jeff Cooper was later given one in 45 acp for review and liked it.
http://larvatus.livejournal.com/488294.html
It reminds me of a Stery GB. Still doesn't blow my skirt up.
I remember finally getting my hands on a Sig 220 in 45 acp and not caring for it at all. Crunchenticker - would be a good description of the trigger. To me the trigger felt springy in both SA and DA.
I'd always read that the the Sig 220 "was the next best thing to sliced bread." I finally realized why so many gun writers loved the Sig 220. The reason was it worked out of the box with Hollow Point 45 acp. To get a Colt 1911 to work reliably with fmj ball much less jhp you needed to send it off to a custom gunsmith. The Sig was one of the 1st 45's that was actually out of the box reliable - no "break in" required.
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Well, the trigger is one of the nicest DA/SA triggers I ever felt. Its both short and smooth. It obviously needs to be somewhat heavy, but its not overly so. Its much better than a Sig P220's trigger, in my opinion.
I don't find it blocky at all, but to each their own, of course. In fact, I love the ergonomics. The profile shape was based on the classic Smith & Wesson 39, which also feels great in my hands.
Its the build quality, parts quality and fitting, and just overall refinement and attention to detail that really strikes me the most about the HSP. I basically feel its the finest pistol in the world from those standpoints.
While I don't own every single high end pistol ever built, I am fortunate enough to own at least three quarters of them, with some of those basically the same as the few I don't. There's one about its equal in some aspects and a couple others close, but I don't think any of them quite match the Korriphila completely. That's how highly I think of it.
lifesizepotato
New member
Isn't "crunchentinker" something Cooper coined and used dismissively about pretty much every German DA/SA gun just on principle?
As bac has said, the HSP trigger is just about the perfected form of a DA/SA - utterly smooth, short, evenly weighted, and not overly heavy in DA, and the SA is as good as many match SAO triggers, with no creep and virtually no overtravel.
Though, of course, it is quite wobbly, not having a dual trigger bar design and all.
As bac has said, the HSP trigger is just about the perfected form of a DA/SA - utterly smooth, short, evenly weighted, and not overly heavy in DA, and the SA is as good as many match SAO triggers, with no creep and virtually no overtravel.
Though, of course, it is quite wobbly, not having a dual trigger bar design and all.
"Jeff Cooper 1st considered this pistol to be a "crunchenticker." That was not a positive comment."
Cooper was often a blind, bigoted fool who couldn't ever see past 'Murican stuff he'd used up to that point. He'd be dismissed as a blowhard in today's information-rich environment, if he himself wasn't made a lot more open-minded because of it. He did have a way with words, though, which made up for it in entertainment value (something too often lacking in the gun reviews biz these days)
"Basically it is a 9mm crunchenticker, but it may be offered in the future in a major caliber."
Figures that he cared for the pistol once it was in his beloved 45acp. Can anyone else imagine the scolding a gun writer would get in the comments section today, for dismissing such a fine piece of engineering & craftsmanship out of hand like that? Dorkenfanboy is more like it.
I wonder how much better the Korriphila's trigger was than all the various (of that vintage often finicky, unreliable, and poor quality) 1911's he was always pimping, directly or indirectly?
TCB
Cooper was often a blind, bigoted fool who couldn't ever see past 'Murican stuff he'd used up to that point. He'd be dismissed as a blowhard in today's information-rich environment, if he himself wasn't made a lot more open-minded because of it. He did have a way with words, though, which made up for it in entertainment value (something too often lacking in the gun reviews biz these days)
"Basically it is a 9mm crunchenticker, but it may be offered in the future in a major caliber."
Figures that he cared for the pistol once it was in his beloved 45acp. Can anyone else imagine the scolding a gun writer would get in the comments section today, for dismissing such a fine piece of engineering & craftsmanship out of hand like that? Dorkenfanboy is more like it.
I wonder how much better the Korriphila's trigger was than all the various (of that vintage often finicky, unreliable, and poor quality) 1911's he was always pimping, directly or indirectly?
TCB