Justifying the Gun

[MTHanded]

"Sometimes people don't want to buy things just because they can. They want an actual reason. There are plenty of things that I *could* do that I DON'T do simply because I have no reason to do them". peetzakilla

I don't care what you want or don't need. I don't need a 4 wheel drive but I have one! I don't need 4 deer rifles, but I have them! I don't need lots of things but as I said in the last post.......this is America and we live in the land of the free where capitalism is called freedom and we need no justification for that.

 

[Brian Pfleuger]

this is America and we live in the land of the free where capitalism is called freedom and we need no justification for that.

"We" collectively need no justification. "We" individually very often do. There are plenty of things that I could buy that I don't buy. Why? I have no "justification", which is a fancy word for "reason".

I'm not saying that there must be some legal justification for buying ANYTHING. I'm saying that "we" as individuals very often do, more often than not, need a personal justification for EVERYTHING we do.

 

[Sport45]

But I wanted a gun. And now I have a gun (two, actually), and will probably buy more guns. Guns are seriously fun.

Seems to me that you don't need any more justification that what you've already stated.

My wife doesn't like guns either and has even given money to gun control organizations.

On the other hand, she doesn't stand in they way of my enjoyment and supports my hobby as well. She's a keeper in my books.

 

[MTHanded]

Peetzakilla, you're exactly right! Individuality is the framework and blueprint that makes this country what it is. Personal justification is individual justification which means that you can judge what's right or wrong for you, the individual. The stickler in your post is that you somehow "need" a personal justification and that is simply not true. A free person can do as they please without giving thought or justification to right or wrong as long as they are within the written law. I have made many a purchase without regard to justification, some good and some bad, but all have been by free choice.

 

[Nnobby45]

When I first decided to purchase the Compact, one of the justification angles I considered was self-defense. But frankly, based on my history, there's simply no way to use that as justification.

Good people from good neighborhoods are violent crime victims every day. I don't think their past history was much of a consideration at the time of their immediate assault.

 

[JohnKSa]

...the focus of most handgun owners is on self-protection. Mine isn't, and it makes me feel a little weird, I guess.

I love shooting, that's why I own guns (and airguns). I realize that firearms are useful for self-defense and since I'm comfortable around handguns and proficient with them, and since I like to be prepared, I try to have a handgun available just in case the need for one ever arises. In the same vein I've tried to learn the laws and practicalities of self-defense because I see it as another aspect of firearm ownership. But if tomorrow the world became a utopia--all need for self-defense ended, I would still own guns. I might sell/trade a couple of the smaller, carry style guns but I would still be a shooter.

So I understand where you're coming from. I don't typically try to justify a purchase (to my wife OR to myself) beyond noting that we can afford it, that we have space to store it, and that I want it.

On the other hand, my wife enjoys shooting but she became a gun owner before we were married because she wanted one for self-defense. Her firearm focus is still more practical than recreational although she now shoots in some matches and enjoys it.

 

[imthegrumpyone]

There's a million stories, I hope I never have to use my gun, but I will !!! Having said that, crime and violence been around forever. You can stick your head in the sand and pretend it doesn't happen or won't happen to you. As for me I rather be prepared and never have to use it, than be caught "Dead Wrong" with out it. It's vary simple, if you don't like or want a gun, don't get one, that leaves you with luck and "911" which could be there to help you in a couple minutes or ????. I don't depend on Gov. or local police to protect me, my family, friends, and property. If anyone decides to own a gun, respect it, other people and your safety is all ways #1. Teach your kids gun safety, if done correctly you'll never have to worry about guns in the house. It's still America, it's still your choice,"don't know how much longer" but when I got up this morning it was. As far as I'm concerned no justification needed. Besides there fun.

 

[Sport45]

Are you trying to justify buying the gun or carrying it?

 

[Rich Miranda]

Dodge, I like the frankness of your original post. A couple of thoughts:

My wife also dislikes guns. Not because they might be dangerous, but because they are something I enjoy that she doesn't, and does not understand why I do! It's really weird, almost as if she dislikes that I have a hobby that excludes her (and, yes, I've tried to get her to go shoot).

Anyhoo, I think you should remind yourself, and her, that ANYTHING can happen ANYWHERE. The odds may be on your side, but that will be of little comfort when you are the 1 / 1,000,000. It happened to me. Once people make this realization, they often realize that a gun is not a dangerous toy, but a lifesaving device.

Good luck to you.

 

[Tamara]

Now, to the point of my post: Have you ever found yourself in a situation in which holding a handgun eliminated a threat to your safety? This question is obviously not for LE (although situations encountered off-duty may be valid), since I'm sure scenarios such as this happen far more often in that line of work. But for those that consider themselves "regular guys/gals," has a handgun ever neutralized a dangerous situation?

Yes, three times.

Oddly, I have been carrying fairly regularly since at least 1994 (and occasionally in the car or purse before that) and I've been carrying religiously, which I would define as "same gun, same holster, every day, no excuses", since '03, and each and every one of the times I had to throw down happened in the space of about one year in '95-'96.

Doesn't mean I'm going to stop.

As the old joke goes:

A: "Why are you wearing that purple hat?"

B: "To keep the tigers away."

A: "There hasn't been a tiger attack here for six years!"

B: "See? It's working."

I'm just fine and comfortable with my purple hat.

 

[P97]

I've carried since I was a Kid and have used it for protection several times during my life. My Son didn't see any need to carry, and was walking for exercise and was attacked by a Rottweiler and would have been killed if someone hadn't got the dog off him. He had to be Hospitalized and as soon as he got where he could, he got his CCW permit and has carried every since. Self defense extends beyond just Humans. Just recently a local Policeman had to shoot a dog that attack him here. Its each persons choice whether to carry or not. Mine is to carry.

 

[Dodge DeBoulet]

Are you trying to justify buying the gun or carrying it?

At this point it's more simple curiosity than anything. I already have guns, and have no regrets about buying them.

Consider this, though: Handguns generally aren't free, and even the ones that don't put a dent in your wallet come with a high price in training, discipline and responsibility. If you get one, you normally have some sort of justification for spending the money and/or investing the time to learn how to use, maintain, and store it safely. It could be recreation/pleasure (my reason), or it could be personal and family safety (which seems to be the majority's reason).

I understand that many have been in situations where their safety would have been (or was) immediately and materially improved by access to a gun, but there are still those that have a similar history to mine yet still feel that a gun is as necessary as homeowner's insurance, seatbelts, and locks on doors.

I'm simply curious as to how the latter came about, and I'm also curious about those situations where a gun resolved a safety/security issue (outside of LE on-duty use, of course).

I like my guns. I want to keep my guns. I want all of you to keep your guns, and for all of us to be able to get more guns if we want to. I'd rather the bad guys not have guns, but such is the price of freedom.

I've gotten some great answers so far, and I sincerely appreciate everyone's contributions.

 

[Motownstan]

Hey Dodge,

I'm about the same as you, before a couple years ago the only gun I owned was 30-30 that sat in the closet for 40 years except for a week in November.

I never owned a hand gun until about a year and a half ago. I got my CPL mostly to familiarize myself with hand guns and to take the hassle out of buying (no waiting period) and transporting to/from range.

I had a lot of trouble justifying my first hand gun purchase with my practical self, but hey, you never lose money on a gun. I've made this justification with myself eight more times. I have sold a couple, but it is nice to go to the range and have the luxury of deciding which gun I feel like shooting today. As long as your "needs" are taken care of, it's ok to take care of your "wants".

I am a retired Millwright from Ford and I just like machinery. What other small machines are crafted with such artful precission and collectible? My girlfriend is getting me a reloading kit for Christmas, more fun with machinery. Some people spend their money at Casino's, bars and whore houses. That's fine, it makes gun collecting look practical.

I usually never carry because, like you, I've never needed to. The times that I have, I felt like I was carrying a huge responsibility. I live alone and keep an S&W loaded in the night stand. The possibility of me waking up, figuring out where I am, if a threat exists, finding my gun, aiming at the threat is almost laughable, but still makes me feel good to have it there.

You should add at least one .22 to your collection, lots of fun in a small inexpensive package.

This is a nice thread you started, the mall ninja's and virtual gun slingers have mostly stayed away.

 

[Legionnaire]

Dodge, I'm late to the thread, and others have given you good responses. I got started with handguns because I was a hunter who wanted to take up hunting with a revolver. Lived in NY State at the time, and it was such a hassle getting a permit (in NY, one needs a permit to possess a handgun, much less carry one) that I got interested in the whole RKBA thing. I subsequently got an unrestricted carry permit for NY (long story, not relevant here), and have been carrying everywhere legal ever since. But my passion is still hunting and target shooting. Those are sufficient justifications in my book.

There is an excellent thread over on TheHighRoad called: It Happend to Me: Carry Stories. Take a look when you have some extended time to read. I have thus far not needed a firearm to protect me or my own. I have taken numerous self-defense classes (LFI, InSights, etc.), but more out of interest and a desire to develop my skills than any fear of criminal activity. So my multiple "justifications" run, in order, (a) recreational use, including but not limited to hunting, (b) exercise of a Constitutionally recognized right of citizenship, and (c) protection.

 

[Tamara]

...the focus of most handgun owners is on self-protection. Mine isn't, and it makes me feel a little weird, I guess.

It's interesting that you bring that up.

I have a small number of handguns that I own for carry. I don't have a lot of emotional investment in them; they're appliances. I practice and train with them, but that's more about the skill than the guns themselves. Being serious about the martial art of Pistol-Fu is no weirder than taking up boxing or tae kwon do; it's healthy, it's challenging, and it may even prove useful someday. But that's not about the guns per se: I could trade the 1911s for Glocks or SIGs tomorrow and it wouldn't matter, I'd just need to pick up some new kata.

On the other hand, most of my handguns have nothing to do with that use: Vintage S&W revolvers. Old service automatics. My latest obsession is prewar pocket automatics. Some of these guns get fired rarely, if ever; I own them because it pleases me to, the way someone else owns rare stamps or porcelain Elvis figurines.

 

[stephen426]

I am fortunate that I have never had to use my gun in self-defense, but I live in a big city and am the restaurant business. Being on the cheaper end of the spectrum, a large part of our business is done in cash. While I have never needed it, I feel a heck of a lot more comfortable having it when I leave late at night. Situational awareness and good safety precautions will often reduce your chances of trouble, but here are just a few things that have happened to people I know or happened in my area:

- A franchisee I know actually had to use his gun in self defense during a robbery attempt.

- A store manager from corporate was shot and killed during a robbery about a year ago.

- The store I was trained at was robbed at gun point a few months after I finished my training.

- One of the managers from our company's restaurants was followed home and robbed at gun point.

- My mother in law is also in the restaurant business and was followed home and robbed at gun point.

- The father of one of my ex-girlfriends, also in the restaurant business was robbed at gun point.

- Someone my father knows lost their son when he was shot and killed during a robbery. According to the news, he complied and they shot him anyway.

The industry I work in has a higher incidence of robberies than others and that is the main reason I carry. I'm guessing its not as bad as convenient stores or gas stations, but I'm sure its higher than average. Would having a gun have prevented or stopped the crime from happeneing? Not necessarily. Would having a gun even guarantee one's safety? I don't believe so either. What it does give you is an option you would not have had other wise. It levels the playing filed so that you are not at the complete mercy of your attacker.

 

[stephen426]

I just remembered a situation that I did draw my gun, but I didn't point it at the guy...

It was late at night and I had just gone through a drive through, I found out they had left something out and I was pulling around to go into the store. There were 3 guys walking towards the fron of the store so I stopped to let them cross. The last guy put his hands on the hood of my car, did a half jump and run towards my car window. I carried my Glock 26 in the center console of my car (fit perfectly and didn't move around). By the time the guy made it to my window (which was down from having gone through the drive through), I already had my gun drawn. I can't believe that I even had the presence of mind not to point it at him, but rather had it right below the steering wheel. I was thinking that had I pointed it at him and had my hand close to the window, he could have either tried a gun grab or pushed my hand down so I would have to fire through the car door. By having the gun to the right side of the steering wheel, it was clearly visible to him and I I would have to do to fire would be to turn my wrist. He started mumbling something about not trying to cause any trouble and that they got thrown out of a club for being drunk. He backed off pretty quick after that. I had 3 other people in the car with my and they were all shocked at how fast I was able to draw my gun. I had actually practiced drawing from the center console every so often and I guess the muscle memorey was there when I needed it.

 

[Cremon]

I personally have never had to draw a pistol to defend myself. My wife went to our bedroom 20 years ago and pulled out my S&W 659 9mm when I wasn't home and answered the door with it when two teens were trying to break in. She had a glass storm door between her and those boys and they ran when they saw the gun.

I practice drawing and aiming as much as I can though. If I ever have to draw, I will be prepared to fire fast if I need to (I probably WOULD fire in a situation where the assailant was armed with a gun, but would issue a verbal warning if he had a knife or I couldn't SEE a weapon).

 

[chronic]

Wow, JohnD you stirred up some old memories with your comment about the Rodney King riots. Long story short, I was living in the Lakewood/Long Beach area at Cherry and Del Amo during the above mentioned disturbance. My daughter was coming in for a visit and supposed to land at LAX and her flight was deverted to Ontario airport, again due to the above mentioned disturbance. I remember driving east one the freeway and buildings were burning on both sides of me. I was not feeling to good about my situation. I felt totally vernerable. I brought her to my house, packed my bag and we headed to the coast (Redondo Beach). I live back in the great plains now, in the country but about a year ago or so I decided I needed to be ready for the unexpected and unwanted. There are plenty of bad guys everywhere. I have taken the class required to get my ccw permit and am trying to decide if that is what I want to do. I really don't anticipate that I would actually conceal carry much at all. Mostly want it for my vehicle.

 

[Mello2u]

Dodge DeBoulet,

Your post raised the question of "[How to] Justify[]ing the Gun"?
Simple answer to this is because.
Because you can legally, financially, and do so responsibly. Further, you are justified in purchasing and possessing a firearm due to the freedom to choose.

It in not a matter of need. It is more complex. It includes the reason that it is your right and perhaps your duty. Is it not your duty to protect your family and yourself from harm? If you lack the tools with which to do so, you are failing in your duty. Perhaps an appropriate analogy is life insurance for a family man with dependents for whom he wants to provide financial security in the event he should suffer an untimely death.

Your post also raised the question of:

Have you ever found yourself in a situation in which holding a handgun eliminated a threat to your safety?

I once found myself on the street outside a locked courthouse waiting to get in, when I noticed another person walking towards me from about 80 yards away. No other people around and no vehicle traffic, early in the morning.

I crossed the street so that he would not pass close to me. He crossed the street.

I again crossed the street, and so did he and he continued to close the distance.

I again crossed the street, and so did he. As he reached a point about 15 yards away I took an aggressive stance, looked him in the eyes, while I unzipped my briefcase and placed my right hand inside as if holding something. He crossed the street and I wished that I had had a handgun in that briefcase.

You don't "need" a handgun until you need one badly and quickly.

My wife related a story to me.
When we lived on a 400+ acre tree farm in Mississippi she was on our mile long gravel drive to the main road when she encountered a pick-up truck. Two men got out and started to approach her. She had our infant son in the car with her and a 5 shot S&W model 60 .38 special. She told them to get in their truck and leave, that they were trespassing. They continued to approach. She let them see the handgun as she stood with the driver's door open. Upon seeing the handgun, they turned around mumbled something and backed out of there.