Hey George.
Regarding the FMJ 115gr sorry if I wasn't more clear, but when I said, "if someone makes a high speed 115 capable of penetrating 12-15 inches in gel, and after cloth, and through bone, I'll use it."
I included the remark about 12-15 inches as a hard limit. i.e. the bullet must penetrate at least 12 inches, and not more than 15 in Gelatin. With the same requirements for through cloth and through bone. That's why the 115gr Gold Dot is unacceptable, it penetrates too far after clothing, even though it gets ~12 inches in bare gel.
I believe that the IWBA calls for 12.5-14 in bare gel, and 14-16 in cloth I could be off by a little bit.
I also believe that ALL handgun rounds are iffy at best. Even the mighty .45. I'd tend to err on the side of under-penetration, rather than over-penetration, however I believe that 8-10 inches is wholly unacceptable. If I increase the risk of shooting through the target by 1% to gain 12 inches of penetration, it's worth it. 2nd, overpenetration is a little overhyped. Odds are my shots will miss rather than hit the target.
I want as much power as I can get, but only if it is being used effectively. For example, I flat out refuse to have anything to do with Glasers, and their ilk, unless I'm planning on shooting in a maze of cubicles. The increase in power from 325 ft-lbs to 466 ft-lbs is 141 ft-lbs. If I hit you with my car at 30 mph, you might not die if all of that KE is not used effectively. Whereas if I smack you in the head with a big rock odds are your toast. #4 buckshot at 1351 f/s has a KE of 7,121 ft-lbs. Now we're going to agree that if I shoot you with #4 buckshot you're gonna stop doing whatever the hell it was you were doing right? Do you think you'd still stop doing it if it only had 6,890? removing those 141 ft-lbs? I think so too. Now if a shotgun is what you need to effectively stop an attacker immediately with a torso shot, and it has approx 7000 ft-lbs, what's a puny 325-466 gonna do to a person? #4 Buck is firing 27 .24 caliber spheres, all in less than a second.
As far as expansion goes. I don't think it amounts to a hill of beans in terms of doing more harm to a person. .51, or .60 what's the difference, a tenth of an inch? huh... not much is it? Would you be overly concerned if I put a whole a tenth of an ince through your body (granted that's not quite accurate) or 2 of'em? I think you'd survive... unless... they were in that all critical spot, the spine/brain stem. But we're talking about torso shots.
147's expand. They do. Velocity is not the be all, end all factor in expansion. DESIGN, is. 230gr's at 850 fps expand very, very well. As I mentioned above, the 115 gr Gold Dots don't expand well after clothing, even though they expand very well in bare gel. Velocity and energy are all find and dandy, but in the end the energy difference between high speed 115's, and slower speed 147's isn't very much at all, and neither is the expanded diameter.
Design, design, design. Not Velocity. They made a 115 that will overpenetrate (after cloth), and they could probably make a 147 that would underpenetrate, and they make 147's that get ideal penetration.
Weight, and velocity are meaningless to me. I care about it getting 12-15 inches of penetration. If it gets 12-15 inches of penetration through cloth and in bare gel, it MUST expand.
Consider the bother it is to set up gel and test bullets, versus the trouble of measuring Kinetic Energy. One requires a lot more work. Additionally, it is the scientists, men of reason, doctors who advocate minimum penetration requirements. Whereas anecdotal evidence says Energy is the all important factor. I tend to side with science. And if they are all saying that a bullet should penetrate 12-16 inches I'm not about to argue with them. I'm arrogant enough for demanding 15 inches instead of 16.
As far as innocents go, a 115gr going at 1300+ fps is just as likely to go through dry wall, and plywood as a 147, going at 1000 fps. If I want something that won't penetrate dry wall and plywood well, I'll use the Federal EFMJ.
Going back to my original point, the 115's available today don't use their energy as efficiently. Temporary cavities in most cases do no damage to a BG.
Gold Dots tend to over-penetrate after passing through clothing, with an exception for the 147's. Corbon's tend to underpenetrate. While they might get enough penetration for most circumstances... there are other cases where they will fail to achieve the penetration necessary to incapacitate in the only way a handgun cartridge can: hitting vital body parts.
The last post about shooting people with blubber in front is a good point. BG's tend to be bigger than us Good Guys. More stuff that needs penetrating.
But that's enough for tonight, I'm tired and I've gotta get up early.
-Morgan
