Just traded my Pedersoli P1853 for a Pedersoli 1859 Sharps Carbine!

[maillemaker]

So I had this Pedersoli P1853 Enfield that has been sitting in my gun rack. Shot great but not better than my custom competition barreled Enfield.

Fellow popped up on the N-SSA forum who had a Pedersoli 1859 Sharps Carbine for trade for a Pedersoli 3-band, so it was perfect.

Now I have to learn about Sharps. Don't know much about them.

I think I want to use combustible cartridges.

Steve

 

[Trum4n1208]

From what I know of Percussion Sharps rifles (and take everything I say with a grain of salt because I've never owned/shot one), I think combustible cartridges are the way to go. I vaguely recall some kind of pseudo brass cartridge for them, something you'd load with powder and bullet, that had a hole on the back to let a spark in to ignite the powder, but I can't recall what they're called and I can't seem to find one.

Very happy for you and your new acquisition! let us know how she shoots. You might also be obligated to post pictures.

 

[Hawg]

VTI has brass cartridges for the Pedersoli but I think the charges are limited to 50 grains of powder with them. I use 80 grains and a 490 grain ring tail bullet in my Sharp's. Make sure the breech face and sliding chamber sleeve are free. I just wrap a piece of wrapping paper around a dowel, fold the end and add powder and bullet, then dip lube. It's not historical but it works.

 

[DD4lifeusmc]

Pedersoli lso sells the brass cartridge.
the lower charge weight id not a hindrance.
the powder is more tightly confined / packed so it does give a good
oomph!
The ladder sight is graduated to 800yd the tang sight (optional) 1100.
But realistically can you see that far? and who has a range with that yardage,
At your normal shooting distance, 50 to 300yd it will do just fine,
Your biggest problem is drop. As this is a very heavy slug, regardless of how
fast it is travelling.

 

[maillemaker]

Hey Hawg do you ever have problems with paper remnants left in the barrel?

Steve

 

[Hawg]

Sometimes but it's not a problem. 80 grains pretty much burns them up.

 

[Model12Win]

You need to nitrogenirate the paper with stump remover soaked in water.

 

[Hawg]

Only if you're going to be a stickler about getting a complete burn each and every time. I get a complete burn about 90% of the time and that's good enough for me. Or you could just use lighter paper like hair curler paper and get a complete burn every time. Nitrated paper is highly overrated.
Maillemaker, Pyrodex doesn't work well. It fires every time but it's kind of like shooting a poorly timed flintlock. I don't know how the other subs work as I haven't tried them. I only use Swiss in mine and ignition is instantaneous.

 

[maillemaker]

I only use real BP - required for N-SSA competition. I use Goex.

Glad to hear about the nitrated paper being overrated. I will try the hair curling paper. Gonna pick some up tonight after work.

Steve

 

[4V50 Gary]

Very good trade.

 

[maillemaker]

Picked up some of those hair curling papers tonight - man they are fiddly! Easy to see how they burn up completely - I could probably fart and turn one to ash. I'm not sure how easily I will be able to make cartridges with it. Will try tomorrow. I cast up about 75 Pedersoli ring tails - about a 525 grain bullet. I will try to marry them to cartridges tomorrow.

Steve

 

[DD4lifeusmc]

Mailemaker
If you haven't already done so Get a piece of wood dowel sanded down smooth with a slight taper.
Taper lets the paper slide off easier, and tapered end will be the closed end of your cartridge.
O.D of your cartridge should be just under the diameter of chamber so will
easily slip fit into it.

Another thing is a wood block with holes for 10 or so cartridges.

after you have wrapped the cartridge and sealed the butt end in some way (me, I fold the end over the edge of the dowel and use a dab of glue, making
a flat end, that can be burned through or easily cut off by the block)

Stand these up sealed end down in the block, pour powder in, seat and tie the bullet. Then dip lube the bullet up to the tie.

with my 475 grain bullet I can actually get closer to a 100 gr of fffg

 

[Hawg]

I can get over 100 grains of FF in a paper cartridge in my IAB with a 490 grain bullet but 80 works best. The chamber will hold 110 grains of loose powder with a 490.

 

[DD4lifeusmc]

Hawg, It seems the makers of these replica Sharps were not consistent with the chamber dimensions.
Some were made smaller some larger

go figure

 

[Hawg]

Yeah DD, they're all over the place and bore diameters too. Pedersoli is the smallest all the way around.

 

[maillemaker]

I made up 50 cartridges with 10 each of 40, 45, 50, 55, and 60 grains of 3F Goex. Cartridges were made from untreated printer paper with hair curler paper to make the end caps. Cartridges were designed (obviously) as the flat style that do not shear off on loading. Bullets were dip-lubed in 50/50 Crisco/Beeswax. I was able to get off about 20 shots before the action stiffened up. I then squirted Ballistol on the block wear surfaces until the action loosened up to where it could be operational again. Later I discovered the real problem surface is the interface between the breech block face and the breech face.

I had one failure to fire event - I believe I accidentally got a drop of Ballistol on the nipple. 3 caps later and it went off.

I brushed after every 10 rounds.

It appears that 50 grains of 3F Goex was the magical recipe. I was shooting the Pedersoli USA 317-541 bullet. It is a Christmas Tree type ring-tail design and weighs about 525 grains. I did not size them.

However, given that the gun shoots 8-9" high, for the top two targets I had to take a very deep hold of the front sight in the rear sight to where I could barely see the tip of the post, and even at that I aimed about an inch under the bull. So not a very good sight picture conducive to consistency. It is possible that some of the shots went over the cardboard and my group is not as good as I think it is - the holes overlapped so much that it was difficult to be sure I had an accurate count.

Here are the results:

The paper cartridges usually seemed to leave some remnant in the chamber. A couple of times I blew them out/down the barrel, but eventually I just started thumbing in a new cartridge, letting the lube-covered bullet push anything out of the way. It was a little nerve-wracking thumbing the cartridge into battery but nothing went boom. I think I will definitely pursue nitrating and see if it helps consume the cartridges.

Steve

 

[maillemaker]

In my Pedersoli, the cartridge length is only 1.4" long with the 525 grain Pedersoli USA 317-541 bullet I am using. This results in a maximum charge of 60 grains 3F.

Steve

 

[maillemaker]

I did the nitrating thing yesterday. It's pretty simple to do. Went to Lowes, got a 1-pound container of Spcracide Stump Remover, which is 100% potassium nitrate. Dissolved it in 1 gallon of boiling water, then set it aside to cool. Put some in a glass dish, and then soaked 10 sheets of pre-printed paper in it, and set it out to dry.

Burned a small test piece. It does not actually burn, but glows as an ember that quickly burns itself out. Almost like slow-burning steel wool.

I'm not sure if this is more or less dangerous than paper remnants left in the chamber. At least without nitrating the blasted remnants are pretty inert.

We'll see how they do when subjected to a blast of Goex.

Steve

 

[Hawg]

That's weird. I don't have that much left with wrapping paper. Why are you making end caps for your cartridges? They're not supposed to fit flush with the chamber but slightly protrude so they can be cut off when you close the breech leaving the entire back of the cartridge open to ignition.

 

[maillemaker]

Why are you making end caps for your cartridges? They're not supposed to fit flush with the chamber but slightly protrude so they can be cut off when you close the breech leaving the entire back of the cartridge open to ignition.

My understanding is that early Sharps cartridges were made purposefully long, as you describe, and then the block would shear off the tail on the up-stroke, exposing the powder to the flash channel.

This presented some problems, in that invariably some powder came away with the sheared-off tail. This powder sometimes ended up in the action and accumulated under the forestock. After a while, it could explode, splitting the forestock. Or you'd end up with powder and debris on the top of the block, which would need to be dumped/blown off before firing or you could get a little flash in your face.

To solve these problems, a new style of cartridge was designed that fit entirely in the chamber, with the rear of the cartridge flush with the end of the chamber. The cartridges were capped off with a thin fragile skin that the cap blast could rupture on firing and set off the charge.

For N-SSA competition, the latter style of cartridge is desirable because it is easier and faster to load, and most importantly you don't lose any powder due to shearing, so your loads are more consistent and consequently your accuracy is better.

My cartridges are made of printer paper, with the end cap being made of hair curler paper. I will be making a video on their construction soon.

Here is what my cartridge looks like:

Steve