Jim Zumbo

VaughnT

New member
I couldn't be happier to hear this. Zumbo screwed up, but that's something we have all done at one time or another. The only difference is that Zumbo did it where everybody and their son could see it.

I don't hunt (though I once did and I used a "sporting" rifle of wood and iron), but I still like to shoot and do not see lambasting Zumbo to be in our best interests over the long term. He screwed up in a big way, but we should show the world that we are bigger than that and give him a second chance.

Kudos to all for giving him this chance.
 

Denny Hansen

Staff Emeritus
Thanks everyone, including ebd10 for prompting me to go ahead with an idea I had been kicking around.

Just for clarification, this is not about giving Jim Zumbo a second chance to get back into the writing game. It is about presenting a united front to the anti-gun movement and our elected representatives. The ’08 elections are just around the corner and we need to speak out loudly as one voice, not fragmented sections.

Denny
 

ebd10

New member
Thanks everyone, including ebd10 for prompting me to go ahead with an idea I had been kicking around.

Thank YOU. This will be an interesting turn of events. And as for prompting? Heck, when it comes to inspiration, I'm full of it!! :D :D
 

Trip20

New member
Great job.

With all of the unflattering Jumbo threads festering, this thread could use a little more exposure in my opinion.

It's kind of hidden here in the SWAT forum.
 

FM12

New member
Zumbo and the Motor City Madman, together, on TV, onNugent's home turf? This ought to be good...
 

mxwelch

New member
Zumbo's second apology, unlike his first, seems heartfelt and humble. Personally I'm ready to forgive and move on...
 

Charles S

New member
Mr. Zumbo repeatedly said how he had seen the light that ARs can be legitimate hunting rifles. The Second Amendment has absolutely nothing to do with wacking Bambi. I truly don't think he gets the point.

I agree. While I agree that Mr. Zumbo's second apology was much better than his first. I am still not sure, based upon either apology, that he ever got the point.

I do hope this works out for the best for all involved and maybe Mr. Zumbo can learn what his mistake truly was. I am just skeptical that the change will occur in a carbine class.

Good luck.
 

Nora12

New member
As I think this thing through I can see that Denny is a pretty smart person.

More controversy=more readers=more advertisers=more $$$$. For example: Claire Wolfe's "drug debate", 9mm vs 45 articles and now Zumbo.
 

Denny Hansen

Staff Emeritus
Uh, no.

This is pure and simple an effort to educate a fellow shooter about so-called "assault rifle" and have him spread the word; no more, no less.

The "drug debate" between Claire Wolfe and Jeff Randall was requested by readers and we delivered.

Also, in the 20 years I've been with S.W.A.T. Magazine, I have never run a 9mm vs. 45 article. You must be thinking of another publication.;)

Denny
 

pipoman

New member
I just found this thread. I saw your offer and Zumbo's acceptance on Nuge right after you posted it. I thought at the time that this was a brilliant move on your part...good job Denny and ebd10. Maybe an ad for SWAT in Outdoor Life with a pic of Zumbo would be a winner.;)

Again good job guys.
 

DPris

Member Emeritus
I'm obviously in the minority, and while not disparaging the reasoning behind the idea, Zumbo at this point going through a carbine school & writing up his impressions is a complete yawner to me.
It won't have any beneficial effect on the anti-gunners, who'll merely claim anything he now does is just a cave-in to pressure, I don't believe it'll convince any of the hunting crowd that the black guns are OK today because "If Jim Zumbo says so, then by golly it must be true", and I couldn't care less about his brand new & shiny (emphasis on shiny) religious conversion. :)
No bitterness there over what he did, just a belief that nothing he does now will make any real difference in the overall picture.
The Brady Bunch already has their quotes from him to use for maximum mileage, no amount of AR15 hunting trips with Nugent, or anybody else, will undo that. He may gain some forgiveness from AR owners in actually touching one of the evil guns on a hunt, and he may get an eye-opener regarding their capabilities for defensive use, but in the final analysis it does all boil down to being just a response to pressure, and even if he does grudgingly admit that the guns do maybe have some small degree of hunting utility, he's still viewing their validity through the filter of HUNTING. I could be wrong, but I don't see that putting him through a class will do much more than allow him to see how efficient the gun is in non-hunting scenarios, and I seriously doubt that will change his attitude about the "terrorist guns". Showing him, essentially, how efficiently it can kill people (whether in justifiable circumstances or not) is unlikely, in my opinion, to make them any more acceptable in his eyes when he already obviously views them as only suitable for terrorists and only appropriate for killing people.
His mentality, clearly demonstrated, is that he has no use for a defensive rifle, and even if he admits the AR can be hunted with, he still doesn't see ownership for either recreational or legitimate self-protection as acceptable. I'm not convinced that teaching him how well ARs work in those roles will alter his viewpoint on them.
He also has yet to apologize (as far as anything I've seen, anyway) for his comments labeling the guns as terrorist weapons, and by extension, owners of them as terrorists.
I see people on various gun forums saying that, "Golly, if he goes hunting with the Nuge, it's all better again", and I don't mean to be offensive in saying this- but, no, it's not all better again. It really changes nothing significantly.
I'm not among those who demand blood from Zumbo, but I'm also not among those who feel that he has any real relevance anymore.
Denis
 

Al Norris

Moderator Emeritus
Denis, I think you're being overly pessimistic.

Yes, the damage is done. But the damage may be mitigated. How much so, depends upon Zumbo himself.

Does Zumbo understand the reach of the Second Amendment? Does he understand that Hunting is not protected by that amendment or any other specific federal law? Does he understand that if the antis can ban one set of firearms, based purely on the cosmetics of those firearms, they can ban them all? Corollary: Does he understand that hunting rifles in particular are nothing more than sniper-rifles?

If he now understands these things, he can mitigate the damage, even while admitting his understanding came from being under intense pressure. That is undeniably part of human nature and cannot be minimized by the antis... Not without them losing their credibility to the common masses.

Consider: Sarah Brady had her epiphany while under intense life-changing pressure. Is she now going to say that Zumbo cannot have the same epiphany, under his intense life-changing pressure?
 

pipoman

New member
Denis, I think the statement made on Nuge was more heartfelt than his original statement. It is too bad this wasn't his first statement. I do believe he was totally blindsided by the reaction to his post. I think part of what surprised him is the fact he has a blog that he knew was viewed by numbers in the hundreds but suddenly there are tens of thousands of people reading and screaming about his post. His original statement was issued within 24 or 48 hours of the original post. He had been in a certain position of relative obscurity until all of this. His name has never been a household word, I would bet at least 1/2 (probably more) members right here on TFL had no idea who he was prior to this. Believe me he gets it, if you don't think so go over and read the 60 pages of posts at the link provided above. Zumbo may be a lot of things but he isn't illiterate or mentally slow which are the only afflictions which would allow him not to get the picture after reading those posts (and he HAS read the posts).

While the antis will use anything and everything to promote their cause they really get very few converts, they mostly preach to the choir. The real benefit coming from this whole thing will be heightened awareness by all of those hunters who have long felt the same way Zumbo felt. A certain portion of those people will try shooting and/or hunting with black rifles because of this. Many will at least consider that the sport shooters and black rifle guys are on the same side as they are.

Bottom line this is a GREAT thing for SWAT. It certainly can't hurt the black rifle crowd. I would bet the numbers of black rifles sold since this and because of this will make up for any damage done. Heck I have even considered buying one, a thought which has never crossed my mind before.
 

DPris

Member Emeritus
Ant,
You may very well be right, and I may very well be wrong.
Ask my first two wives- I was ALWAYS wrong with them. :D
But, them's my feelings.
At this point, I don't see how anything Zumbo does will have any great impact anywhere, mitigationally or otherwise.
There'll be another minor flutter on the Internet when he does his much-ballyhoo'd "Me, The Nuge & The AR15" hunt, there'll be a couple "Praise The Lord, I Have Seen The Light!" articles, a few tolerant souls will forgive him because he knew not what he did (& Ted says Zumbo's really an OK kinda guy), and then we'll be left with the same aftermath of his remarks- Bradys quoting him for years, too late in life to re-kindle his career & re-establish his credibility, another brick in the wall between hunters & shooters, and so on.
The only good thing (albeit at the cost of his career) that will really come out of all this is that it showed the firearms & accessory industry quite clearly that hunters are not the only market for their wares, or even necessarily the largest market. Shooters, with AR owners buying huge numbers of tickets, are driving the bus, and the industry had better realize it. Zumbo demonstrated that in spectacular fashion, along with the power of the Internet.
Wait & see, I suppose. :)
Denis
 
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DPris

Member Emeritus
Pip,
Yup, it will also generate some AR sales. Enough to make any significant impact on the market? Dunno. Significant numbers of converts? Dunno, but I really doubt it. Again- could be wrong. :)
Unfortunately, just as in "our side", where there will be a certain number of previously undecided people motivated to decide the Black Guns may not be so evil after all, there will also be previously undecided people on "their side" (or previously neutral) who (whether they knew who Zumbo was before or not) will buy into the "Greatest Gunwriter In World Now Admits Black Guns Are Terrorist Weapons ONLY!!!!" statements made by the antis, without knowing or caring any more about Zumbo & his background, or the legitimate uses of said guns, than they did before. Today, headlines & sound bytes have much greater impact on those who don't have the interest, time, energy, or motivation to look into those pesky little details below the headlines & behind the sound bytes.
You're right, he was hardly a household word before. I'm moderately plugged into the industry, and I'd never heard of Zumbo till I saw him mentioned on the in-hotel TV channel in Vegas that constantly runs SHOT SHOW coverage during its run each year, about four years ago. Same Show, I stood behind him for a few minutes at the Remington booth waiting to talk to one of their reps. Otherwise, I've never read a word he's written prior to his career suicide, which I discovered on the gun forums. I don't read Outdoor Life. I'd safely bet he's much more widely known now than he was before. :)
Denis
 

EJJR

New member
I still know very little about Mr. Zumbo. From the little I do know I dont think I want to know more. :eek: Seems like a very heated topic.

Heck, I hadn't even heard of him until I started to browse these forums.

In fact, the recent interest, in actually owning firearms myself, didnt fully develop until all the recent hubbub about bans started to be spread on the news and through the web. The situation that arose in the aftermath of Katrina is what rekindled it though.

I'll admit I was pretty ignorant, until recently about firearm ownership. :eek:

*shrugs* Better late, than too late. :cool:
 

rem33

Moderator
Denny Hanson,

Great idea I will be purchasing a copy of that SWAT.
Personally I hope it increases your readership substantially.
 
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