Issue with Titegroup

[chris in va]

I tried using a powdercoated 225gr 45acp Lyman LRN over 4.8gr of Titegroup in my CZ and it basically smeared down the barrel really bad, and I saw some sort of debris flying out the ejection port.

I have zero issues with my SWC 200gr powdercoated using Clays so this was a real shock. The fouling was so bad I couldn't hit a 1/2 scale IPSC at 25 yards.

 

[Shotgun Slim]

I had a different powder cause fouling with a 147 powdercoated bullet in 9mm. I believe that with that particular load(960 fps) enough heat built up at the base of the bullet to cause problems. Reducing the load slightly solved it. Titegroup may be doing that to your bullet. The fouling can be nasty,as you said.Back off a bit or change powder and see what you get.

 

[chris in va]

Do you feel it would benefit from a slower powder like Universal?

I also just mic'ed both the SWC and the LRN bullets, showing .451. The Lee sizing die might be a hair tight, are you all using a .454 die?

 

[Shotgun Slim]

Went on Hodgdon's website and your 4.8 grains is a fairly heavy load. I do think a slower powder would help you if you want to maintain your velocity with that bullet. I'll have to let you research that because I load just about everything except 45

 

[Unclenick]

In other words, the Tightgroups were Loosegroups. Bummer.

That's really interesting. If the pressure is an issue, Clays should be worse. I note a number of folks complain about how hot Tightgroup makes their guns. I am wondering if you see this problem with the first shot? If not, it might be that the higher heat powder is burning fragments blown off the first round, whereas Clays is not. It is very hard to tell without being there to witness and inspect at different points in the process.

Can you recover some bullets from your backstop and share photos?

 

[chris in va]

I shoot steels so not much left, our backstop is at 300 yards.

I fine sandpapered the sizing die out a bit, could be a bullet fit issue as well. 4.8 did seem quite warm compared to 4.0 clays, I have to be super careful with this CZ as it's snapped on me three times.

 

[jetinteriorguy]

IME Titegroup shoots hot, I wouldn’t be surprised it’s basically melting the coating. Possibly from blow by if the bullets aren’t fitting the bore tight enough.

 

[mehavey]

I tried using a powdercoated 225gr 45acp Lyman LRN over 4.8gr of Titegroup in my CZ

1. Your powdercoating, or someone else's ?
2. What PC if you know ?
3. Was the base PC'd as well as the nose/shank?
4. How hard was the bullet ?

 

[chris in va]

My own PC, cmpletely coated, sourced locally from a shop. Never had a problem with it in x39, 9mm, 45, 38, 357. For some reason this particular load just didn't work.

Oh, water dropped wheelweight hardness.

 

[mehavey]

Setting aside an aberrant/bad batch of PC/process... have you tried leaving the alloy as-cast (air-cool/no quench?).

If undersized, that might alleviate the ill-effects of a 20-ish Brinell-numbered bullet in a relatively low-pressure cartridge.

(FWIW: I'm running pure lead/PC'd/45ACP -- I'll try some TiteGrp this weekend)

 

[mehavey]

OK . . . .
- PC'd up some Lym 452190 LRN(30:1/255gr) that ought to stress test the system
- Eastwood Mirror Green: 450° liquify/30min at 404° / Lee Size .452

- QL says comparable stress at 4.1gr TiteGrp /16.6ksi (vs 16.1ksi for the Lym 225gr using 4.8gr TiteGrp)

 

[totaldla]

TiteGroup is the only powder I've used that would deposit lead on and around the cylinder holes of the cylinder face. I discovered this while working up plinker loads for 44mag. I use a lot of Clays and I've never had that happen.

 

[Shotgun Slim]

To the OP- do not try to duplicate the Titegroup load with Clays. Clays is really nice for LIGHT loads but you flirt with Kaboom if you load heavy.

 

[Mike38]

I believe 4.8 grains of Titegroup is a max load. Try backing down the charge. I load 230 grain round nose for the .45acp with 3.5 grains of Titegroup. That is under the min load, but it works great for me. This is in a M1911, and functions great.

 

[chris in va]

5.1 Titegroup is max listed by Lyman 50'th, I may try 4.5 min. or even 4.0.

Today I tried 5.0 231 and got zero fouling or smearing. Amazing what different powders will do.

 

[Nick_C_S]

I note a number of folks complain about how hot Tightgroup makes their guns.

It does. Like no other propellant I've ever used. I'm not sure how that relates to your issue, but it could be a factor.

When I used (past tense) it for lead bullets, it would deposit a lot of lead around the cylinder throats and throughout the barrel - from breech to muzzle.

 

[mehavey]

I picked up the Lyman 255gr 45ACP mould this evening and cast a couple dozen
bullets 30:1/PC'd half of then as per Post#11. I'll duplicate the 4.8gt TiteGrp
and shoot tomorrow (along with the 452190 heavies)

 

[mehavey]

10 rounds each, Timed fire rate, Mag change at 5-rounds

Clean as whistle on single dry patch.

,

 

[BillM]

Titegroup runs hot. Smoky with lead/coated bullets.
4.8 with a 225 is a hot load. I run 4.1 with a 230 coated
to make a USPSA major power factor of 172 for competition.

 

[mehavey]

[TiteGroup] . . . 4.8gr with a 225 is a hot load.

The standard-issue, military . 45 ACP cartridge contains
a 230-grain bullet that travels at approximately 830 fps
when fired from the government-issue M1911A1 pistol.

As can be seen in Post #18 above, that TiteGroup/4.8gr/225 bullet load
is not hot at all. In fact it barely breaks 800fps with a 30:1 (234gr) alloy,
and only 816 fps with #2 alloy (224gr).

In fact it's pretty much run-of-the-mill(-) *



*
(I grant you that's a 183 power factor, but that doesn't translate to "hot"
in the real world)

.