Is the "scariness factor" important for an SD gun?

[overkill556x45]

If it's time for the gun, it's time for the gun. As Paladin once said in the first episode of "Have Gun, Will Travel": "I don't draw it often, but only when I intend to use it."

That falls in line with Cooper's principles of self defense as well. You only draw when the antagonist crosses a certain line, and once that line is crossed, the decision is made. Now, if I draw and they run away, of course I'm going to allow their retreat. If I'm in fear for my life and the line is crossed, then the gun comes out and the bullets do their thing.

Mr. BGs brain is going to scream "GUN!" and he's either going to run, surrender or fight.

Indeed, sir. Assuming I've drawn my P64, then the antagonist has crossed a line that puts my life in immediate danger. If he doesn't go "GUN! Run away!!!", then he will go "GUN! Hey, where'd all these angels come from?".

 

[drrpg01]

I would tend to think that a person having any gun pointed at them would be scary enough, if they have any regard for their own life at all. Dirty Harry movies aside, I don't think the size of the gun is going to be the deciding factor about how things turn out.

 

[cougar gt-e]

I voted "Extremely Important".

Why?


I guess that it was from looking at it from the ends. If a BG breaks the door down and is sneaking up the steps to the kids bedroom and I jump around the corner with A)a 25 acp that barely is visible in my huge paws or B) a 12 ga with enough lasers and lights so it looks like a friggn disco ball -- which is going to have more impact on the BG when I yell "Stop!" and a few dirty words?

My thought is that the 12ga will get his attention and make him stop a bit quicker.

I would guess that this gun would have little effect on stopping BG's with only the visual deterrence. Still would drop them when you pulled the trigger, but it would probably NEED to have the trigger pulled -- if you follow my warped logic.

 

[MWark]

To scare or not to scare, that is the ?

SD in my home is very different than SD on the street.

If the BG is in my home there will be very little if any conversation. I considered the defense of my home and it’s occupants to be my primary responsibility. To provide the BG with a warning is to increase the risk to my wife and daughters. The weapon that I select will be chosen based on how best to meet that responsibility. If all goes well the BG will never hear me or see my gun.

On the street the BG will likely get a warning and the opportunity to respond. However even on the street my tolerance will be greatly reduced if I’m escorting my wife and or children .

As far as scary; my CCW is a blue J frame, it is small but when you’re looking down the muzzle those hollow points are very visible and scary.

I guess I’m a little like a momma bear. You don’t want to mess with her when her cubs are around.

 

[Brian Pfleuger]

I jump around the corner with A)a 25 acp that barely is visible in my huge paws or B) a 12 ga with enough lasers and lights so it looks like a friggn disco ball -- which is going to have more impact on the BG when I yell "Stop!" and a few dirty words?

That's more a question of whether or not the gun is even visible. In other words, what's more scary, a big scary gun or no gun?

The intent, I think, of the OP is closer to does it matter if your gun is a sub-compact XYZ versus a shiny 357 revolver, or even a subcompact Glock versus a full-size 1911.

I say it doesn't matter. If Mr BG is afraid to get shot then he's going to react the same way to ANY visible firearm that he believes you will use if pressed. If he's not afraid to get shot, well, then he's not afraid.

 

[Webleymkv]

Does the "scariness" of the gun give the user an advantage? Heck, I don't know but I figure it couldn't hurt. IMHO the only thing scarier looking from the business end than a shiny bigbore revolver full of nasty looking hollowpoints is a SXS double barrel shotgun.

 

[mavracer]

The intent, I think, of the OP is closer to does it matter if your gun is a sub-compact XYZ versus a shiny 357 revolver, or even a subcompact Glock versus a full-size 1911.

not sure why you'd say that he specificly mentions tiny guns and uses the example of a NAA mini revolver.
which in that case I'd say a 4" GP100 would be much faster recognized and might make a difference in Mr BGs attitude.which is why I wouldn't say it makes no difference.

 

[prestigegunleather]

to all,

as a retired LEO, who was "famous" or "notorious" (depending on who you asked) for carrying a "sawed-off 870" PISTOL on duty, let me simply say that the SIGHT of that 12guage barrel coming out from under my Tuffy jacket STOPPED many a beer joint fight, "out on the county line", W/O bloodshed.

i NEVER had to shott/shoot at anyone with it. = NUFF SAID.

yours, PG

 

[Tom Servo]

We're assuming the BG will see and/or register the gun as such.

I once had to draw in a dark situation. The BG crossed about 20' of space in ~1.5 seconds. He didn't realize I was drawing a gun, as his eyes were fixated on mine. In fact, he didn't stop until he was within arms' reach, at which point he'd felt the muzzle drive into his chest.

It was a big, scary, full-size pistol. Don't count on guns as a visual deterrent. Same goes for the myth about the sound of a pump being cycled working as a deterrent. Highly driven people and/or those on drugs will not respond to stimuli like normal folks.

If anything, the sight of a gun being presented may drive them to greater levels of desperation.

A gun is a weapon of last resort, not a deterrent. If it ends up working as a deterrent, all the better. But don't count on it.

 

[mavracer]

Does the "scariness" of the gun give the user an advantage? Heck, I don't know but I figure it couldn't hurt. IMHO the only thing scarier looking from the business end than a shiny bigbore revolver full of nasty looking hollowpoints is a SXS double barrel shotgun.

that does elimininate Mr BGs need to take the time to think "Ya but is it loaded"

 

[Brian Pfleuger]

not sure why you'd say that he specificly mentions tiny guns and uses the example of a NAA mini revolver.
which in that case I'd say a 4" GP100 would be much faster recognized and might make a difference in Mr BGs attitude.which is why I wouldn't say it makes no difference.

Yes, he does mention a mini-revolver, along with
"They're real guns, but to many, they sure don't look like it."

but he also says
"What I take this to mean, is that a large portion of the time, when a would-be attacker is confronted with the fact the defender has a gun, the attacker gives up. After all we've all heard no one wants to get shot, whether with .22 or a .41 mag, and in all likelihood, a BG won't ask you the caliber of your gun before deciding whether to give up or to proceed."

How exactly would you expect a BG to be scared by a gun that he doesn't think is a gun? If you're scared of spiders, are you scared of a spider that you don't think is a spider? If that's what the OP meant then it's a silly question.

If the OP meant "Is a big shiny revolver more likely to scare a BG than a Ruger LCP?" then you have the assumption that the BG has identified the weapons.... otherwise, what is he scared of?

People that are scared of spiders are scared of what they IDENTIFY as a spider, whether it's a spider or not and whether it is big or small. No reason to believe that guns are any different.

 

[mavracer]

How exactly would you expect a BG to be scared by a gun that he doesn't think is a gun? If you're scared of spiders, are you scared of a spider that you don't think is a spider? If that's what the OP meant then it's a silly question.

not silly it's going to be much easier to scare somebody with an easily identified tarantula than some tiny spider that they have to get out a magnifying glass to identify.
or maybe a better analogy the tarantula will scare the aracniphobic where as he may need to be bitten before he even recognizes there is a small spider.

 

[Brian Pfleuger]

not silly it's going to be much easier to scare somebody with an easily identified tarantula than some tiny spider that they have to get out a magnifying glass to identify.

Not if they're not afraid of spiders, and that's the point. If Mr. BG isn't afraid of getting shot, or doesn't believe that you're going to shoot, then you could point an RPG at him and it's not going to matter. If he is afraid of getting shot, and believes that you will do it, then the only thing that matters is that he believes that you have a gun, size be damned.

or maybe a better analogy the tarantula will scare the aracniphobic where as he may need to be bitten before he even recognizes there is a small spider.

Yes, but the small spider will scare the person who is afraid of spiders just as much as the tarantula because it's not the size of the spider it's THE SPIDER. Believe me, my wife's entire family is arachnophobic (if that's a word). There can be big, juicy nasty spiders or little bity, barely visible, translucent ones.... same reaction.... screaming and running.


Another angle:
If you're afraid of spiders and I threaten to throw a spider on you then are you going to ask how big it is? No, the only thing that matters is whether or not you believe that I have a spider and, if so, whether or not I'm willing to throw it on you.
If you don't believe that I have a spider or don't believe that I would throw it on you then you're not scared.
It's the PRESENCE of the spider and my willingness to "use it" that makes the difference.

Why should a gun be any different? Who's going to be scared of a gun, of ANYTHING, that they don't know is there or don't think you'll use?

 

[onthejon55]

I think the scariness of the gun is much less important than the scariness of the person holding the gun.

Which would be scarier:

one of these guys with a P22

Or

this guy with a tacticool shotgun

 

[Nnobby45]

It's my hope that the microsecond it becomes available, it catches enough light to scare some sense into a would-be attacker and cause them to turn their back to me and run the other way.

Your hope? Well, you know what they think of "hope" at Gunsite Training Center. The sign above the entrance says "abandon all hope, ye who enter here". There's a reason for that.

If you see the muzzle of my 4506 pointed at you guess what you are getting shot...

Interesting comment considering that drawing the gun has, on many occasions, caused all hostile action to stop immediately, and by the time you get it pointed, shooting would be neither necessary nor lawful.

When you draw a gun, you'd better be prepared to use it, but that doesn't mean you're a robot. I thought that had become clear on this thread, already.

I hope you'll re-think that one.

I have one pistol on which I shined up the muzzle. An article I read made sense that under street lighting, such as parking lots, or ATMs (that I visit seldom after dark) there might be enough glint for Bubba to get the hint and be frightened off.

It's been a number of years now and I haven't heard of that being a real useful tactic. Doesn't mean it hasn't worked.

 

[Skans]

What does a "scary gun" look like? On the other hand, what does a friendly gun look like?

 

[armsmaster270]

I carry to be able to stop an attacker if all else fails. If all else fails and I have to pull the gun I will more than likely be pulling the trigger. I don't care what the other guy thinks of my gun.

 

[Glenn Dee]

Your attacker shouldnt see your gun until it's too late... for him...

 

[wyatt3d]

Actually the argument about spiders confirmed my original vote of moderately important.

pizza, you're talking about an irrational fear of spiders, I'm not necessarily afraid of dogs but my reactions are going to be very different if I see a Chihuahua running at me versus a pit bull, of course that's easier to identify than a .22 vs. .44,

I have to believe that a large frame nickel plated revolver will have more of a psychological effect than a pink .25 auto.

…but I’d never rely on it.

Also if you have to pull your weapon you better be prepared to use it but recognize if you don’t have to.

 

[Evan Thomas]

... if it's out on the street I really think "gun" is scary. I don't believe that shiny revolver, LCP, Glock or anything else is going to matter. Mr. BGs brain is going to scream "GUN!" and he's either going to run, surrender or fight.

What PK said, pretty much. I don't think "scary" is so important, but visibility might be. It seems to me that, other things being equal, a big, shiny gun might be more noticeable to a BG than a wee black one that's nearly hidden by my hand. So, if he's going to be deterred by a gun at all, he might be deterred sooner by one that's more easily identified as a gun.