Is the Repub Party against birth control ?

S

Silver Bullet

New member
Thanks for all the inputs.

I did a google search on +Palin +Catholic, and one site states that she was born a Catholic, but now

A non-denominational Bible church. I was baptized Catholic as a newborn and then my family started going to non-denominational churches throughout our life.
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Another site claims Governor Palin is an Evangelical Christian, not a Catholic.

According to Wikipedia,

Palin was originally baptized as a Roman Catholic, but her parents switched to the Wasilla Assembly of God, a Pentecostal church, where she was rebaptized at age 12 or 13
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Her position, then, is probably due to her very early religious training and not necessarily an indication of the Republican Party in general.
 
D

dipper

New member
My wife's a nurse, she volunteers in FREE CLINICS ---there are plenty of places to get free birth control.
If it has been taken out of some schools, big deal.
Schools are for education not birth control clinics.

From personnel experience:
There are bowls and bowels of free condoms around the clinics-- and other forms of birth control are offered---pills, patches etc.
My wife, who works in several clinics, sees with her own eyes that girls and women take the condoms and pills and then show up pregnant.


Seems like reality does not back up you version of the story.
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Yes, it does back me up---see, my wife, her friends, my future daughter in law who is a social worker and is also in her last year of nursing school ( she works in the free clinics too) all tell me what is reality---so, I don't have to listen to Planned Parenthood to get my facts.
All I have to do is talk to the above mentioned people who see it on an almost daily basis......That's REALITY.

I am one of those people who believe that sometimes you can trust " your lying eyes" over some printed facts by people who have a vested interest in keeping the status quo.

Dipper
 
C

ConfuseUs

New member
My wife said she received an email from Hillary's campaign claiming that the Republican Party is actively trying to keep women from acquiring birth control devices. I haven't seen anybody outside the Catholic church promoting anything like that.
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That's a fabrication based on the core of truth that the Republican party is generally anti-abortion, some Republicans may have fundamentalist religious beliefs that forbid any form of birth control, and the evangelical Christian wing of the Republican party has successfully pushed for abstinence only sex ed in schools.

I'm sure that a majority of Republicans use various forms of birth control. There's no way a proposal to ban BC pills, IUDs, DP shots, sponges, diaphragms, condoms, tubal ligation, or vasectomy will fly outside of very extreme circles in the Republican party.
 
F

fisherman66

New member
Yes, it does back me up---see, my wife, her friends, my future daughter in law who is a social worker and is also in her last year of nursing school ( she works in the free clinics too) all tell me what is reality
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Correct me if I'm reading in too much. Are you citing this testimony as evidence that abstinence programs are more effective?
 
P

Playboypenguin

Moderator
Correct me if I'm reading in too much. Are you citing this testimony as evidence that abstinence programs are more effective?
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Yeah, seems to me like you have no first hand knowledge of what you speak and are using anecdotal stories from people that have no real evidence either to contradict accepted scientific studies and statistics.
 
D

dipper

New member
Nope--sure ain't.

But, why not talk about it ??

Some people fly off the handle when you mention abstinence---and I believe it has little to do with actual abstinence , more with what it implies---or what some think it implies.

Neither seems to work especially well so why not talk about both---why is one so readily accepted ( by some) when the other is considered taboo.

Dipper
 
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fisherman66

New member
Sounds good to me. Life is full of choices and the more info about the consequences certainly doesn't hurt from either side of the coin. Many years ago when I was in high school the cheerleaders were required to participate in the abstinence program that would address the student body. Every year without fail one or more would have a baby. Most of us never found out about those who didn't carry to term, so numbers could be inflated.

Those were the days when to get a health class credit we had to dress up a sack of flour and carry it around for a week, changing it's biscuity diapers. You wouldn't believe the abuse those poor 10 lbs kids received after the week was over. They didn't get to grow up to be white gravy, or bread venison. They were thrown into the stadium fountain to clog it's valves or take a tumble from the third floor. They never had a chance.
 
D

dipper

New member
Yeah, seems to me like you have no first hand knowledge of what you speak and are using anecdotal stories from people that have no real evidence either to contradict accepted scientific studies and statistics.
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Yeah Playboy my friends and family are just a bunch of liars---I know.
Yes, they have no real evidence when they treat and counsel these women.
They need not believe their " lying eyes" and of course SHOULD not believe what they see.
You're right---AGAIN.
Now, here we go...let's play Playboy.

What studies?
What statistics?
Who accepts these studies? Everyone?? Or just the ones you agree with?
Do you think that there are reasonable people that would not agree with these studies?

Never mind, don't answer--it would be your usual dodge anyway and I've gone off topic enough.

Dipper
 
M

Master Blaster

New member
Statistics show condoms are 80% effective, they can break or leak you know. So that means for every 10 instances of intercourse you have 2 potential successful conceptions during a womans 36 hour monthly window of opportunity.

Birth control pills are 95% effective if taken right, so you have to work a little harder for them to fail. A friend of mine hit the jackpot and was taking the pill when she became pregnant after a 1 night stand with a colleague.:eek:

True abstinance is the only way to ensure no baby, but thats a tough sell to teenagers, so IMHO its better to educate and provide contraception.

The republican right however wants to pretend that people wait until they are married, so funding has been cut for contraception, and clinics that accept federal funding have to discuss abstinance and can't provide abortions.
 
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Playboypenguin

Moderator
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Playboypenguin

Moderator
True abstinance is the only way to ensure no baby, but thats a tough sell to teenagers, so IMHO its better to educate and provide contraception.

The republican right however wants to pretend that people wait until they are married, so funding has been cut for contraception, and clinics that accept federal funding have to discuss abstinance and can't provide abortions.
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Yup, that is what I teach my nephew and niece. I also try to steer away from scare tactics like "you will get a fatal disease if you do it even once" since the first time they see a friend who has been having sex not catch aids they will brand you a liar and stick to the true and honest ramifications of unsafe sex.

The right only supports abstinence only to placate the far right. It is their base and they have to pander to it. they do not base their decision to do so on any type of related logic.
 
S

Socrates

Moderator
HMMMM.

A REAL Republican is one who believes in LIMITED FEDERAL AND STATE GOVERNMENT. Contrary to Bowers Vs. Hardwick, a libertarian/True Republican would say that the Constitution gives the right to privacy, as it did in Roe V. Wade, and, that the government has no business spending money on the issue, or, passing laws on the issue.
 
A

Alleykat

Moderator
To paraphrase Bill Bennett, if we could force birth control on that aforementioned segment of our population in which the illegitimate birth rate is so high (which, of course, votes 98% DemocRATic), the crime rate would rapidly decline. And that's a FACT! ;)
 
D

dipper

New member
Playboy,

From your first link:

Kids in both groups were knowledgeable about the risks of having sex without using a condom or other form of protection. Knowing that did not mean they put on a condom every time, however. Condom use was not high in either group; of those who had sex, almost half said they used condoms only "sometimes" or "never."
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THAT is just what I said---and has been the experience of friends and family in health care---their is FREE contraception out there, and it is being taken and NOT being used in all cases. YOU should read the whole article.
Didn't seem like there was much difference in the study between those that were taught abstinence and those that were not.
So, what's the beef with abstinence?
Why do some think it is a dirty word??

2nd link:
More than one-third of both groups had two or more sexual partners, the study found (Washington Post, 4/14). Twenty-three percent of both groups reported having had sex and always using a condom; 17% of both groups reported having had sex and only sometimes using a condom; and 4% of the students in both groups reported having had sex and never using a condom, according to the report (Fox, Reuters, 4/1
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Basically the same study---showed that those taught abstinence weren't any different from those that were not.

3rd link some blog. Nothing there.
Not much in 4th link either.

So, again I would ask, what's the problem in teaching abstinence if the results are the same in the studies you listed??
Why would someone scream against the teaching of abstinence when it seems to be as effective as sex education and free birth control??

It seems that my friends and families real life experience is supported in your links---FREE taxpayer supplied birth control doesn't work like some would have us believe.
Certainly no better or worse than abstinence.

Dipper
 
F

fisherman66

New member
To paraphrase Bill Bennett, if we could force birth control on that aforementioned segment of our population in which the illegitimate birth rate is so high (which, of course, votes 98% DemocRATic), the crime rate would rapidly decline. And that's a FACT!
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Yep, social welfare would drop too. That's why I can't get my head around the platform plank on abortion by the Republican Party. Outlaw abortion and social welfare grows exponentially.
 
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Playboypenguin

Moderator
It seems you are missing the point that abstinence-only is not at all effective. Even the kids in these studies are seeking other means of contraception because even they realize abstinence is not likely. You are also ignoring the parts that state that the teen pregnancy rate has risen for the first time in 14 years since abstinence-only programs have been put into practice.

I can say 50% of kids do not look before crossing the street. That does not invalidate the need to teach your children to look both ways before crossing the street. Just because some kids will not use the condoms does not mean it is not beneficial to provide them with the knowledge to use them.
 
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dipper

New member
It seems you are missing the point that abstinence-only is not at all effective.
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According to your studies, it is just as effective as regular sex ed. and free condoms.

I can say 50% of kids do not look before crossing the street. That does not invalidate the need to teach your children to look both ways before crossing the street.
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Agreed, and let's teach them all the ways to look at that street.
Not just Planned Parenthood's way---to not cover all the bases would be foolish.
Abstinence is not a bad word and it does have a place in sex ed.
AND, you may have noticed ( or not) that I never said abstinence-only was the best or only way to go.


Dipper
 
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Playboypenguin

Moderator
According to your studies, it is just as effective as regular sex ed. and free condoms.
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No, you are not comprehending the studies. They clearly say that even those taught abstinence-only have to resort to other means for effective education and birth control. They are getting their information elsewhere because the AO programs are failing them.
Not just Planned Parenthood's way---to not cover all the bases would be foolish.
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Planned Parenthood does teach abstinence as the only 100% effective way to avoid disease and pregnancy. Where are you getting that they do not? I have volunteered for planned parenthood and have taught multiple courses. I even coordinated our Planned Parenthood interactions when I worked for CPS.

You are once again laboring under the false pretense that those that teach methods beyond abstinence do not teach abstinence also.
 
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dipper

New member
No, you are not comprehending the studies.
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Oh, I think I am---it says both groups are about the same.

I'm not reading something that's not there---if that's what you mean.

Dipper
 
P

Playboypenguin

Moderator
I'm not reading something that's not there---if that's what you mean.
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No, you are just not comprehending what is there.

Once again...where are you getting the idea that programs that teach methods beyond abstinence do not also teach abstinence?
 
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