Is ammo availabilty getting better yet?

[TunnelRat]

You’re comparing prices of ammunition bought at two different retailers in an attempt to prove regional price fixing. How do I know the markup from both retailers is the same? You’re also comparing a grand total of two retailers when all of ammoseek is available. I’ll also add the Norma ammunition available on normashooting.com, which is ammoshoponline’s new website that they link you to when you go to their old website, is not $0.38 a round but $0.40 a round. That’s the same price of the American Eagle that you seem convinced is price fixed.

Again, my own experience and the evidence in front of me doesn’t support Vista price fixing. If you want to believe differently that’s your call.


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[wild cat mccane]

Yes. But the fatal mistake there is ammoseek is US only.

We have a member here who lives in Switzerland. No problem getting ammo or components at normal pricing, per him.

 

[TunnelRat]

Yes. That’s American retailers marking up their products to take advantage of the situation. That’s not the same as Vista themselves doing this.

I mentioned buying Blazer Brass just two months ago for $0.28 a round. When I saw it I was in shock. I spoke to the owner of the store, moderate sized but not large, and asked him how he was able to sell it for that. He told me it was the same markup he always charged, not some special deal. When I asked him how the stores around him, some not even 5 min from his door, were charging $0.40 a round? He just looked at me and said, “I make it a habit not to speak badly of other business owners”. He could have easily charged $0.35 a round and the line would still have been out the door. Some retailers have no issue charging more.

That steel cased Russian ammunition didn’t magically increase 40% in cost when the ammunition ban was announced. It was already in the country and had been paid for. That was demand spiking and retailers adjusting their prices. I literally watched that night as ammoseek kept crashing and prices magically changed in a span of hours.


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[Onward Allusion]

Ammo is available but prices have remained at elevated levels. It's inflation and will likely not reverse as transitory only means the leveling of the increase. Prices will not deflate.

 

[stuckinthe60s]

as long as people buy....prices will remain at the high sell prices.
customers have a weapon. its called DONT BUY IT.
force inventory up.
come end of year where industry gets taxed on surplus, they must reduce price to normal or even less to break even.

THAT...is economics in action.

 

[Onward Allusion]

Agreed. That's exactly what happened with lumber. Supply shift caused an initial and dramatic price increase which eventually shifted the demand curve and cause prices to go back to where they started.

 

[Carl the Floor Walker]

I have not hardly bought any ammo in the past two years, Just living on my stash. How can people be buying when there is hardly any for sale? My LGS seldom has much ammo at all in 9mm especially. And the store is dead. This is one of the most popular stores in my large city.
I do not know how people are buying much ammo at the prices they want now. I do not believe that is the issue. And it will get worse once they stop importing Russian Steel case. We are talking about a 35% decrease in supplies.
I go to my club and talk to members very often. Members I have known for decades that are avid shooting enthusiast. THEY ARE HARDLY BUYING ANY AMMO AS WELL. And they certainly are not shooting much. The range is no where near the shooting capacity on Sat. like years past. My local indoor ranges are nothing like before. Even a Sat is like a ghost town compared to before, where the wait was at least a hour. Now no wait and barely any shooters. So if people are buying so much. Then where the heck are these people?

 

[Pistoler0]

I gauge the overall price of ammo by looking at the price tag of the cheapest brass cased ammo that I can find on Ammoseek for 9mm and .308.

Today Sept 12 2021 you can find .308 brass cased ammo for as low as $0.69
And 9mm brass cased for $0.33.

So I'd say the price of ammo is coming down in relation to what it was 6 months ago.

However you are out of luck if like me, you shoot russian calibers. 7.62x39 (steel) is retailing for $0.46 for steel and $0.47 brass, when it used to be less than $0.20 a round.

Lets not forget that in the last year and a half, besides the supply constraints, there has been rampant inflation all across the board. So in addition to the kinks in the supply chain and the russian ban, what is happening to ammo prices is not very different to what you are seeing regarding food prices at the supermarket. Go and try to see if you can find ground beef at $0.99 a lbs, which is how cheap you could find in January 2020:
Albertson's beef 99c/lbs

This is what happens when a Central Bank resorts to round after round of "quantitative easing" (printing money). But that is another story....

Ammo prices will NEVER go back to 2020 prices, get used to it, and neither will any other prices for that matter.

Now, if our salaries, and pensions, and wages go up at the same pace as inflation, no problem, no?

 

[Pistoler0]

I have not hardly bought any ammo in the past two years, Just living on my stash. How can people be buying when there is hardly any for sale? My LGS seldom has much ammo at all in 9mm especially. And the store is dead. This is one of the most popular stores in my large city.
I do not know how people are buying much ammo at the prices they want now. I do not believe that is the issue. And it will get worse once they stop importing Russian Steel case. We are talking about a 35% decrease in supplies.
I go to my club and talk to members very often. Members I have known for decades that are avid shooting enthusiast. THEY ARE HARDLY BUYING ANY AMMO AS WELL. And they certainly are not shooting much. The range is no where near the shooting capacity on Sat. like years past. My local indoor ranges are nothing like before. Even a Sat is like a ghost town compared to before, where the wait was at least a hour. Now no wait and barely any shooters. So if people are buying so much. Then where the heck are these people?

Carl I think that one reason why it is hard to find ammo at a good price on store shelves is because much of the ammo market is moving online. I'd say it is the same if you try to find a big selection of small house appliances at a good price on store floors.

I think that if you are waiting for ammo on store shelves to be back at the price where it was in 2020 your ammo stash is going to disappear.

What I do to conserve my stash is go out and shoot, and replace what I shoot that day with ammo I find online. Oh yeah, and I am not taking classes where 400 rds are the minimum required, I can no longer afford that.

 

[Carl the Floor Walker]

Look at the bright side. In three more years, ammo we will have much more to worry about than Ammo. (If we are still here), Gee, I wonder where all that US banned Russian ammo will turn up? Some Country is going to make out like a Lucky Dog. And the last thing they have to worry about is their 2A rights taken away by our administration.
DON'T GO THROUGH YOUR STASH! You might need that ammo just to put food on the table.

 

[Pistoler0]

DON'T GO THROUGH YOUR STASH! You might need that ammo just to put food on the table.

Haha, based on my success (or lack thereof) as a hunter, I am afraid that if I need to put food on the table I better focus on getting me a plow and a stash of seeds.

 

[Carl the Floor Walker]

I have stocked up on Pellets for my air rifles. Sparrow stew is delicious. I figure once the Squirrel population is gone, there are always plenty of Rats.

 

[Logs]

I found Blazer 9mm for $330 per 1,000 and it's brass cased. Supply is getting better.

Local Walmart had 30-06 and 300 Win mag on shelf today, but nothing else.

 

[Seedy Character]

I better focus on getting me a plow and a stash of seeds.

I have lots of seeds stockpiled and pellets, too

 

[armoredman]

I was out at the range a couple of weeks ago, and I had to go back, as it was absolutely full. When I went back during the hot times, there were still people shooting and when I left, more were showing up, many with ARs. I scarfed some good brass, too. The people down here are shooting like there is no shortage.
If I have to use my firearms to hunt for food where I am, we will starve. BUY food, water, medical supplies, etc., especially meat as beef has risen 16% since Jan, pork 13% and chicken about 6%, per an article I read two days ago. Filing the freezer as fast as I can.
Ammo is available, and prices are still nuts, but I am trying to find reloading components. I can still shoot every month and not put a huge dent in my stash, as it were.

 

[scoobysnacker]

Yes. That’s American retailers marking up their products to take advantage of the situation. That’s not the same as Vista themselves doing this.

I mentioned buying Blazer Brass just two months ago for $0.28 a round. When I saw it I was in shock. I spoke to the owner of the store, moderate sized but not large, and asked him how he was able to sell it for that. He told me it was the same markup he always charged, not some special deal. When I asked him how the stores around him, some not even 5 min from his door, were charging $0.40 a round? He just looked at me and said, “I make it a habit not to speak badly of other business owners”. He could have easily charged $0.35 a round and the line would still have been out the door. Some retailers have no issue charging more.

That steel cased Russian ammunition didn’t magically increase 40% in cost when the ammunition ban was announced. It was already in the country and had been paid for. That was demand spiking and retailers adjusting their prices. I literally watched that night as ammoseek kept crashing and prices magically changed in a span of hours.


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There was a poster on another forum, from Belgium, who stated S&B 9mm was priced at 200 Euro ($236) for a case of 1k. This was posted on 9/12/21.

To me, that's inline with inflation added to pre-panic prices. S&B is part of an international company, I highly doubt they sell to Belgium for a lower price than they do the US (a far larger market). That flies in opposition to every principle of economics I've ever learned- the more you buy, the lower it should cost per item.
I'm unaware of any tariff on Czech products that would cause S&B to raise their prices here.

I also don't think that's because Belgium has less shooters, and therefore haven't depleted their past supply yet... shops over there would not have warehouses full of old ammo, at a 10 yr supply, simply because folks don't shoot as much over there. Instead, they just would buy less, maintaining a similar percentage over time.

In other words, I don't think S&B is setting the higher prices in the US. I think it's the sellers, who have discovered that the market will pay significantly more (and thus they get a much higher profit).

 

[wild cat mccane]

US online ammo sellers are setting the prices as high. Not like in some evil cabal. But right, we all here have mentioned ammoseek.com. It's not like me, owner of family friendly owned SGammo or TargetSport isn't aware of that price. But somehow Madisonguns.com magically appears this year and can sell AE 147gr for cheaper than SGammo or TargetsportUSA.com? Hmmm...

It's provable because we have members here in other countries with normal pricing and perfect supply, yet their domestic ammo is coming to the US as high pricing. What magical thing happened on import that made it match US made pricing? Wolf steel 115gr at normal $6 a box is materially $2 different than US Federal AE 147gr or Speer Lawman 147gr?...

It's online shops. They are pricing high for two very obvious positions; 1.they can (Vista profit reporting has never been higher on ammo, a PUBLICLY traded commodity with Federal reporting requirements on the commodity) 2. if they run out at normal pricing, will they be able to get more in.

That Federal has 115gr FMJ AE at 28 dollars a box, but I can get (shipped free) Swiss made 124gr? hmm...

Geeze, if foreign purchase power on raw materials is lower, foreign ammo is coming from higher labor countries, foreign build scale is lower than US Vista.........it must be evil democrats or it must be inflation or it must be....or any other excuse than the clear obvious answer: US retailers are selling high cause they can and US consumers are buying it high.

With Club pricing, when ammo is in stock at the largest online retailer of handgun ammo in the us (Cabelas), the pricing isn't ALL that different from before.

Throw stones? Throw them right at the "community" that supplies ammo. Blame economics, blame the Russian ammo ban, blame any liberal opinion you've ever imagined...but it's the owners of ammo shops.

Australia, getting most of Winchester's ammo right now, price is set at contract. Is Winchester currently dying from material costs? nope.

 

[TunnelRat]

Online retailers recognizing when they can make a larger profit and pricing their ammunition to do so isn’t mutually exclusive with inflation. Two things can happen at the same time. There is inflation, I’ve pointed you to the articles about the increase in the consumer price index (CPI) before. The prices we’re seeing reflect more than just inflation. As for people claiming blaming Democrats or throwing stones, once again who on this thread is doing that? Give us the name of the member or it’s just a strawman argument.


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[wild cat mccane]

Inflation is indexed to a commodity price.

Ie, a consumer good is up by a %, therefore the consumer price is up this percent. That is not true with ammunition. So anything above that indexed inflation on raw goods is pure profit.

The US govt has no policy or market controls that makes foreign ammo like Norma, Geco, Foicchi, Aguila, S&B equal in cost to US made.

So when our Swiss based member says prices are normal in Switzerland, a socialized country at a higher wage than the US and confirmed by another person just above this, that means US ammo sellers are causing the price increase above the indexed inflation.

Inflation has appeared to stagnated as reported by the Financial Times today.

 

[TunnelRat]

I explicitly said the prices we are seeing reflect more than just inflation. My point was and remains the two aren’t mutually exclusive. I was the one who originally made the argument to you that it was the sellers that are the main drivers of the cost increases we have seen rather than just Vista price fixing.


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