Innovation in handguns

[BlueTrain]

I was just wondering, as I looked over my two automatics last night, if innovation in handguns has come to an end? Perhaps it is only temporary but most of the newer handguns do not feature anything especially new and, in some cases, the new guns are either based on or are complete reproductions, virtually, of things produced at least fifty years earlier. Sig is reintroducing the P210 (for the rich, I assume), reproducing something introduced in the 1940s. Ruger, on the other hand, is introducing its own variation of the Colt Government Model (for the merely well-off) which was introduced before any of our fathers were born, probably. Even Colt themselves manufactured an "original" Colt.

What happened?

When the German police specifications came out 30-some years ago, Sig, Walther and H&K all created new models to meet the specifications. Of all of them, the H&K was the most innovative. The Walther was relatively different, though based on something they already made (the P38) and the Sig was relatively conventional. Newer guns from those companies are all relatively conventional, although at this point, a plastic frame had ceased to be unconventional. Glock took care of that, although the rest of their design is not wildly unconventional or original, nor have they produced anything especially different since. But I guess it is a hard act to follow.

Now, mind you, after all that, I have no ideas myself whatsoever, in case you thought I was about to spring something on the world. But have handguns reached an evolutionary dead end, assuming you believe in evolution? Is the next new handgun going to be a reintroduction of something from 1900? I could probably go for a new Mauser C-96, though I probably couldn't afford one, no more than I can afford one of S&W classic revolvers.

Well, maybe if I sold all of them that I have (except just one), skipped lunch for a few weeks, cancelled my 401k for a couple of months.....

 

[PSP]

Innovation can and will come in the form of new materials, metals, polymers, powder, bullet composition and design, maybe electronics, etc.

Smaller innovations will also occur, such as textures, finishes and shapes.

There is surely a lot yet to be discovered.

 

[chadstrickland]

I agree with the above post to a extent ....and the reason why I dnt fully agree is because we already have sufficient materials to build pretty much anything we need to...( not counting rail guns or laser stuff )...titanium is 30 percent stronger than stainless steel at half the weight..roughly that is...I mean...I. know its hard to machine and it will catch on fire if it gets to hot...and I aslo know that there are a few guns that use it already..but not enough..I also realise that the cost of the guns themselves would go up..but im more than willing to pay for quality...and I make 8 bucks a hour...just saying that before someone calls me a rich kid..

 

[chadstrickland]

Lol..oh and another thing,this isn't a handgun but to me its one heck of a step in innovation ....the kriss vector..I think its called..a .45 cal sub machine gun...go look that thing over

 

[mrbro]

Innovation and creativity? Look at the Chiappa Rhino. Don't know if I'd own one but it is definitely a new approach.

 

[Superfuzz]

Vector is an amazing SMG. Innovation at its finest.

 

[Auto426]

I am starting to believe that the next major innovation in firearms will come in ammunition, not the guns themselves. We have been using basically the same thing in the form of metallic cartridges for over 100 years now. We keep improving bullet designs, make them faster, larger, or higher pressure, but there is only so much you can do with them. We have reached a point in handgun design where most designs take a "if it ain't broke don't fix it" approach. Brownings short recoil system works, so we keep using it, or variations of it. Something new needs to come out on the ammunition front before we see any major developments in handgun design.

 

[Rifleman1776]

I agree, there hasn't been any real innovation since the Civil War. The launching platform has been sophisticated and we now have some (innovative?) incredible optics. But the gun hasn't changed from the basics.
Innovation?? Ruger just introduced a 100 year old gun. Oh, wow. I'm underwhelmed.
Innovation? It won't happen anytime soon. Liberals in Government and the courts will not let civilians have modern firearms or new propellants or projectiles. We are stuck in the past, and will be for a long time.

 

[Billy Shears]

What about the rotating barrels in the Beretta PX4 pistols? I don't think I've seen that in the past. In my opinion, it makes for a fat, ugly, sci-fi looking pistol [but not even in the same league as the Chiappa] but it does seem like a fresh approach to pistol operation and recoil control.

But, I think your basic premise is correct. There doesn't seem to be much innovation these days, at least in a major, paradigm changing sense anyway. Little tweaks here and there will continue, but that's like most mature industries. The groundbreaking, earth-shattering discoveries have apparently all been made, so now everyone tries to perfect the existing technology. It works, and small, incremental improvements not only garner increased sales, but impact the R&D budget less.

Just a thought.

 

[Boats]

Steyr-Hahn M1911 with a rotating barrel:

The much later Steyr GB had one too.

 

[Billy Shears]

Boats,

Thanks for the info. That's an interesting pistol. I hadn't heard of those before.

I guess it just goes to prove the Blue Train's point, what's old is new again and there's nothing new under the sun.

 

[BlueTrain]

No offense to those who don't like liberals but generally, gun owners are conservative, if not reactionary. So don't blame liberals when people don't always like the latest gun. If Colt made a decent double action automatic (or revolver), would you buy it?

 

[mrbro]

On a macro level it's easy to say that nothing has changed, a projectile is being launched down a tube by igniting a contained propellent. Innovation typically takes place on the micro level with small improvements, tweaks if you will. Sometimes, a real leap takes place, or seems to, that is really a logical progression of small improvements when viewed through the lens of hindsight.

IMHO an innovative change is something that resulted from looking at something from a different perspective. Otherwise, the only innovation in human history would be the harnessing of fire, electricity, and communications via radio waves. Oh, and beer.

 

[BigJimP]

I'm not sure we need a lot of innovation ...

" Would I buy a Colt - if they made a good double action semi-auto or revolver ? " no, probably not ...but then I don't really want or have to have anything that Colt ever made....not even the Python - that was a great gun.

I'm in my 60's ...so I'm comfortable with the 1911 ..../especially today's high end mfg's like Wilson Combat -- who have really perfected the design in my opinion. A good Wilson 1911 these days will cost you easily around $ 3,000 - but I'm ok with that as well ....and am happy to pay it. I have 2 Wilson's now - and will probably add a 3rd one of these days ...

I like revolvers - and I have a lot of them ...but they're all S&W's and mostly older models like the model 18's, 19's, 27's and 29's ...and to me they are better guns than the Colt versions because they fit my hands better...not that Colt made a bad revolver ...

Even Wilson Combat is into the poly frame arena these days --- with their spec ops model ...and I may add one to my collection one of these days for the heck of it. By all accounts its a very good gun. Innovative - maybe / maybe not ...depends on your perspective I guess .... but I think a double stack ( virtually a 1911 ...) is interesting ...but its been done before by other companies too .... and its retailing for around $ 2,000 .

http://www.wilsoncombat.com/p_specops.htm

 

[Hardcase]

I think that it's essentially be said above, but the gun industry is akin to pretty much every other manufacturing industry - change tends to come incrementally.

Guns, cars, washing machines, whatever - incremental change is the norm for economic reasons (reuse of technology) or social reasons (resistance to change). Even in the high tech business that I'm in, technology advances in small steps - innovation happens, but only rarely does it cause a generational leap in design.

The handgun platform is, ergonomically, pretty well developed. Quite a bit of improvement has been made in metallurgy and, um, "plasticurgy". Those are the kinds of innovation that are incremental, but still important. Also, manufacturing technology has significantly improved, which allows for some pretty doggone high performance handguns at a reasonable price.

I dunno, maybe the next generational change will be handheld railguns or something. Who knows?

 

[Amin Parker]

Wow this ones really got me thinking.

 

[BlayGlock]

Yes have you not seen the new H&k 45 or p30s. Very innovative.

 

[357 Terms]

I know it doesn't relate to gun designs but tritium sights and lasers still make me think of how far sighting "systems" have come since I started shooting.

 

[18DAI]

I haven't seen any innovation since Glock came out with the plastic fantastic guns.

S&W calls every cost cutting measure they do an "innovation". Nope, just cost cutting.....or adding crap I don't want in the case of S&W.

Sig still tries to be innovative......to an extent.

No matter, I prefer the tried and true handguns made prior to the year 2000. Regards 18DAI.

 

[Rugerismisticness]

Glock is the least innovative pistol ever made, stupid simple.

The mexicans had a rotating barrel 1911 back in the early 1900s that was truly innovative, much less recoil than the browning design. Untill hanguns are thinner than 1911s, more innovation will follow.