Informing LEO's about your CHL: a helpful courtesy?

[raftman]

So, here's a question that occurred to me because I heard two different things. If there are any LEO's to read this, it would be particularly great to your input, but if anyone else has perspective or experience to offer, that's good too.

I live in a state that does NOT by law require a holder of a CHL to inform a law enforcement officer if they are carrying when a traffic stop is made. Months ago, when I was taking the required CHL course, the instructor said that though not required, it was considered polite and courteous to inform the officer if you are carrying, this shows the officer that you're concerned that they be informed, and as a result could even potentially make the officer more lenient towards you.

Yesterday, I happened to be browsing the the FAQ section of the Oregon Firearms Federation website, this is a pro-gun lobby in my state. They state that since one is not required to inform a police officer (so at least both sources have the fact of the matter straight), they actually should not mention their CHL or that they are carrying unless asked, because the officer will likely take it as a threat and could thus become hostile.

So the question that goes out is, if you are to speak from experience, or even logic, if not legally to inform a LEO that you happen to be carrying during a traffic stop, is it best to inform the officer anyways, or best not to because the issue at hand is how fast you were going, and not your firearm?

 

[Michael Anthony]

I'll tell you my personal policies and feelings on the subject:

-If your plan is to assault me with your concealed weapon: yes I would like you to tell me you have it in advance.

-If you do not plan to assault me with your concealed weapon, and there is no chance I will find it or see it during the encounter: it really cannot help you to tell me.

-If you do or do not plan to assault me with it, you didn't tell me about it, and I do find it or spot it: we will have what is called "a situation" that will have to be "handled."

With all that said, I probably will spot it or find it if it is on your person. So it would be safer for both of us if you did inform.

When I deal with police, if what they ask of me requires me to go in my glove box and a weapon is in there, I inform. If it requires me to get out of the car and a weapon is on me I inform. If the situation involves the trunk and weapons are in there, I am already under arrest

 

[Al Norris]

Not a legal or civil rights question. Moving to the General Discussion forum.

 

[chris in va]

I've handed over my CC permit three times. Every time they all handed it back to me and essentially said, "I don't need this".

It's on their screen, at least in VA.

and there is no chance I will find it or see it during the encounter: it really cannot help you to tell me.

Yeah well, as someone speaking from the 'other' side, we have no way of knowing if we'll get asked to "step out of the car", even for a routine traffic stop.

 

[ChicagoTex]

If you do not plan to assault me with your concealed weapon, and there is no chance I will find it or see it during the encounter: it really cannot help you to tell me.

I don't know how it's done in Oregon, but in Texas your CHL is linked to your Driver's License in the national computer systems LEOs use. This means that the officer will suspect you are armed even before he meets you,

Let me tell you a story:

About 7 months ago I drove up to the Chicago area to visit a friend of mine and stay with him for a few days. I took my Glock and carried it as far as was legal, unloading it and placing it in my suitcase in the parking lot of a Dairy Queen just west of St. Louis (and the Missouri-Illinois border). The rest of the drive in was uneventful and I stayed with my friend and had a good time.
On my way out, however, just about 5 miles east of St. Louis I was pulled over by the Illinois State Police for what I can only conclude was driving with Texas plates (they never told me why I was pulled over, besides that they felt I was "driving suspiciously", and I received no citations.) At this time, my Glock was exactly in the condition I left it in my suitcase, unloaded, in the trunk of my car. The officer came up and asked me for my license, which I happily provided and he went back to his car without any further conversation (I thought it was odd that he never asked me for proof of insurance, by the way). I think he expected me to tell him about my CHL, but I figured since I wasn't carrying, and my CHL wasn't valid in Illinois, it wasn't pertinent. Anyway, he comes back and asks me to step out of the car, so I do and we go around to the front of my car. I'm asked a couple basic questions, where are you coming from, where are you headed, etc. and then he asks if his partner can search my car. By this time there's no doubt in my mind what's going on, but as I haven't broken the law, I go ahead and let them have at it. Too late to make a long story short, his partner did eventually find an unloaded Glock securely stored in the trunk of my car where I couldn't get to it and it was obvious to them that I wasn't any trouble. Before letting me go, the interviewing officer informed me that it would be best in the future to bring up my CHL with other Illinois officers despite the fact that it's not relevant because they are "worried about surprises".

Fair enough, I guess.

I think the bottom line of this story is that many (most?) officers interpret your posession of a CHL as likely posession of a firearm, and they would like some assurance that you respect their concerns and are generally on the up and up.

This doesn't mean you're legally required to give it to them, but it is usually perceived as a courtesy.

 

[Wagonman]

I wasn't aware that CHLs came up on Illinois name checks--- I have never seen a notation. I will ask my ISP buds about this. Those downstaters can be stereotypical----the ISP around the city are good guys in most cases.

 

[Rich Miranda]

I am pretty firmly in the camp of NOT informing. It just isn't necessary, so why muddy the water? Most cops I've had the pleasure of dealing with roadside are pretty succinct and to-the-point. They want to deal with you and move on.

On the other hand, if you are trying to establish that you are a law-abiding citizen able to acquire a CHL to try to get out of a ticket, that is different. You are no longer just trying to be "courteous." You now have ulterior motives (but that's another thread).

As for ChicagoTex's encounter with Illinois law enforcement, we must abide by the laws of whatever jurisdiction we are in, but that's it. If that officer would prefer to be informed of your Texas CHL, that is his personal preference. What if, based on that experience, you mention your CHL to an officer during your next visit and it causes problems? There are too many ways it can go wrong (yes, it's one in a 100,000, but I'd hate to be that 100,000th guy). If we follow the law and not preferences, we're all better off.

What I find ironic about your experience, ChicagoTex, is that in Texas, with a Texas CHL, you are not required to mention it if you are NOT carrying. So, why would they "recommend" that you do so in Illinois? I think the officer was off base.

 

[Rich Miranda]

I think the bottom line of this story is that many (most?) officers interpret your posession of a CHL as likely posession of a firearm, and they would like some assurance that you respect their concerns and are generally on the up and up.

The fact that I have a CHL at all means that I'm on the up and up, as far as I'm concerned. Further, I think the fact that someone does NOT possess a CHL makes them MORE suspect, even if just very slightly. But that is just my view and I'm often wrong, especially at 1:09 AM Saturday night.

 

[djohn]

Nope I never tell and they dont ask either.Only if I was asked to exit the vehicle for any reason or directly asked then I will inform.When I am asked for ID my drivers license is all I show and it is connected when they one through the computer for priors.

I got into a fender bender in the spring and it was raining actually a Monsson and a women failed to stop coming out of a lot and hit my car.The lady and I sat in back of the police car,while he wrote the reports up and she was getting a ticket for failure to stop to on coming traffic and with the accident at hand, I totaly forgot I was CCing and sitting in the back of the Police car.

 

[DougO83]

I no longer have my CHL, but I carry most every day for work. Open carry in a duty belt (non-LEO) I have been asked to give my ID and such before, but my response prior to reaching for my ID (mind you I am in uniform) is that I am armed, how would they like me to handle it. Some have said they don't care and others have asked me to step out of the vehicle so they can secure my handgun...I have no problem informing them of my weapon and I didn't when I CC'd either.

 

[RedneckFur]

In North Carolina, its actually required to inform LEO if you have a CHL, and you also have to inform them if you have your handgun on you at that time.

CHL holders are told that they should only open their window halfway when the LEO aprocaches, and we are told that LEO are taught that CHL holders will do this. I've not been stopped since getting my CHL, so I cant confirm this.

A few years ago, I was pulled for having a blown brake light, and i had some rifles in the back of my SUV. I turned on the dome light when i was pulled, and the LEO aproached my SUV. he looked in the back window, saw the rifles, and went back to his car and waited. a few moments later, a 2nd police car pulls up behind his, and then he came up to speak to me. No mention of the guns was ever made. I was given a citation for the light, and told if I got it repaired within 24 hours, I could return the ticket to the police department and the charge would be dropped.

 

[Kreyzhorse]

In Kentucky, you do not have to inform an officer that you have a CCW. However, if they run your license, your CCW status is part of the information they receive back.

While I've never been pulled over with my CCW, I'm undecided if I'd let them I was carrying at the time or not. Legally, I do not have to notify them. Is it the right thing to do? Not sure. As someone else mentioned, why muddy up the water? If I'm getting a ticket, give me a ticket and we'll all move on.

 

[J.Smith]

For my and the officers safety I would tell. I keep all my info in my glovebox, and if I had to lean over there is a good chance the officer would see my 1911. I think the best way to approach it is to just be courteous. Always turn your interior lights on at night so that they can see, keep your hands in plain view, and don't reach for anything without being asked to. If asked for my registration and insurance I would just inform the officer that I was legally carrying a concealed weapon, and ask how they wanted me to proceed. If they get ticked or don't care, but I'd rather get a ticket and tick someone off than accidentally get shot over a misunderstanding.

 

[Dingoboyx]

Here in Oz....

As we are not allowed to 'carry'..... If I am on my way to the range for a shoot and I get stopped for anything (they do alot of random pull overs here) I hand them my drivers licence & my firearms licence together, then they ask "do you have any firearms in the vehicle?" to which I answer yes, they check it/they is/are carried correctly (locked in a metal case/box, cabled/chained to the vehicle)

This has happened a couple of times now, the cops are either not interested at all or want to check out the guns (more for their personal interest).

I actually had one pair of cops stop me, all went well, one them came up to the range and had a shot later that day, as his shift was ending & he wanted to try some black powder shootin'. The cops here carry Glock 17's and never have anything to do with revolvers, so he had a blast with my ROA and Vaquaro 44

I personally believe, letting cops know you have a legal gun on you, is a courtesy to them, it can never be said you were trying to 'hide' anything from them.... unless they have had a bad day, or they are just a 'natural born *******' it is your best bet

I reckon the right thing to do (but I am prolly wrong ) would be when you are asked for licence & registration.... give them your carry permit as well...then they can ask the questions, but they know you are being 'up front' with them.... can't hurt.... can it?

 

[Doublestack]

I am in the camp that believes that unless I am asked outright, or asked to step out of the vehicle, that there is no reason to offer that information. I have been stopped for speeding twice while carrying. I was polite, gave the officer what he asked for, got my ticket, and moved along. No harm no foul.

Had I been asked if I was carrying, or if I had firearms in the vehicle, or was asked to step out of the vehicle, my very next words would be that I was legally carrying a firearm, and how would the officer like me to proceed.

The "May we search your vehicle?" request mentioned in an above post is a subject for a whole different thread. Without cause, I don't think the police or anyone else should be searching for a problem.

DS

 

[Creature]

I am in the camp that believes that unless I am asked outright, or asked to step out of the vehicle, that there is no reason to offer that information. I have been stopped for speeding twice while carrying. I was polite, gave the officer what he asked for, got my ticket, and moved along. No harm no foul.

Exactly. If you do not give the LEO a reason to worry, there is no reason to inform (see bold).

 

[22-rimfire]

I don't tell. It has nothing to do with a routine traffic stop. There are times when providing too much information just muddies the water. If they search my vehicle, then I will inform the officer. Frankly, there is no telling what they might find in my vehicle.... so when they find 4 pairs of sunglasses.... so there they are..... I don't want them to think I am hiding something because I'm not, but there is no reason to inform the officer unless it is a state law or generic to the situation.

 

[PhoenixConflagration]

In Florida, there is no law to inform, nor is your status in any database (which means if you don't have your card in your wallet, they can't look it up either). I've been told by two separate people (one was the CCW instructor) that they always hand over both driver's license and CHL together. If the officer cares, he'll say so and you can both proceed in whatever way he/she's comfortable with. If they don't care, they'll just hand it back and go about normal routine. I for one don't want to take the chance that he sees my gun and there's a problem before I can show him my CHL. I'm young (30 but look 23-25) and dress somewhat punk-ish. I don't think it's likely that a LEO will assume at first that I have a license to carry. Not knocking LEOs, it's just human nature to make assumptions based on appearance when you see certain patterns day in and day out. I've heard several anecdotes where the officer has thanked the CHL holder afterwards for informing them of the situation.

 

[rampage841512]

I've twice informed, and twice drove away with a warning after having been going 15+ over the limit.

I wouldn't advocate looking at them and saying, "I've got a gun." That might be taken as a threat. I always handed over my license, insurance, and carry permit and said something to the effect of, "I am carrying, just so you know."

The result has twice been they ask for my pistol/pistols, unload them, set them on the top of my car, usually compliment me on my taste, run my info through the 'puter, come back, tell me to slow the hell down, and off I go.

Of course, I live in a state where LEO tend to be friendly to firearms owners and those who carry concealed. It might be different elsewhere.

 

[luvsasmith]

As a Police Officer, it would make me look a lot more kindly upon a person if I was told upfront they were carrying and later during the stop caught a glimpse of shiny metal under their shirt, or a print of a weapon, etc. than if they did not tell me and I saw the same. It is required that you tell an officer in my state that you are carrying but it is part of the info retrieved via plates and DLs.

My advice- let the officer know you are a (mostly) law abiding, officer friendly CCWer.