In the white?

[George Stringer]

A customer brought in a Remington 552 yesterday that he had cleaned. His receiver and triggerguard were white. I already know what happened to it but I thought I might throw this out and see if anyone else might have an idea. George

 

[Rob Pincus]

He was trying to recreate that scene at the end of the big gun fight in Hard Boiled and he forgot to wipe the flour off the gun.

 

[Morgan]

Obviously, he used something evil to clean it with. I've no idea what. I also assume it has something to do with the metal or treatment/coating of the metal of the receiver and trigger guard, as the barrell was unaffected. Now I'm curious!

 

[GLV]

Paint sure comes off easy don't it?

 

[Bushwhacker]

Used spray on carb cleaner?

 

[Rich Lucibella]

You're killin' me with the suspense, George. My best guess runs along the lines of Flyer's carb cleaner assumption.
Can you give us a hint in terms of the chemical reaction that causes this?
Rich

 

[Rob Pincus]

I'll send a firearms related piece of clothing (hat, T-shirt, something from the stash) to the first one who guesses correctly. With Rich's Permission and George's judgement on who wins.

------------------
-Essayons

 

[jer]

How about vinegar.

 

[sskraft]

Sounds like he used an ultra-sound cleaner.

 

[Walt Welch]

Hmmmm. As I recall, some Remington .22's of that era had Al receivers and trigger guards. Since Al is a more reactive metal than Fe, and anodizing the most common method of coloring Al, I suspect that he used some method that caused or utilized an electric current, which would strip the Al much faster.

An acid bath, as suggested above, using vinegar, would be a possibility. One other possibility occurs to me. There is the Outers' lead and Cu removal (from the bore) system which uses an electrical current. Could a misapplication of this method be the culprit? Walt

 

[Doc Lisenby]

Two guesses; he tried to use aluminum black on paint or soaked it sulfuric acid to remove rust. He certainly didn't try to cryo treat with dry ice? Naw, rocket scientists don't do that. Sand blasted the stock with the recv'r installed? Baked Teflon finish over the paint? I give up George, keep the prizes. Doc

 

[George Stringer]

Guys, I'm going to let this one go another day and see if we get any more responses. Here's a hint. Walt was on the right track with the anodized aluminum. George

 

[4V50 Gary]

He couldn't have been bead blasting it unless he wanted it white to begin with. A good dunk in the caustic (hot) blue bath will remove the finish (and if long enough, dissolve the part).

 

[George Stringer]

Well, guys, everybody pretty much guessed along the same lines but nobody actually came up with the correct answer. My customer and some of his shooting buddies went in together and bought a bluing tank and some Dicro-Clean 909. While Dicro-Clean under normal circumstances shouldn't harm anything it is slightly alkali. If (as in this case) the anodizing is weak in areas from wear the alkali will get under the finish and remove it. What really shook him up was that they had cleaned several guns with anodized parts and this was the only one that turned. It was also the oldes and had seen the most use. I didn't expect anyone really to come up with Dicro-Clean in particular. The alkali was the key. George

 

[Rich Lucibella]

Rob-
Thanks for the T-Shirt offer. Go for it.

Walter Welch-
Curse you, Red Baron!

OK. Let's think about this. It had to be something that was either sprayed on, dipped or, as Walter says, elecrolysed.
Rich

 

[Rob Pincus]

seems you boht posted in the same minute, but without the benefit of each other's posts.

So, no winner?

 

[Walt Welch]

Y tu madre tambien, Rob; no winners my tuchas. TWO winners is the way I see it!!

Actually, I am somewhat confused as to why alkali would strip anodizing from Al.

Just to make sure I understand the problem: the parts stripped (receiver and trigger guard) WERE Al?? The bbl. ( probably steel, but remember Rem. had some .22's with Al sleeved steel bbl's; Al over steel) around that time, was indeed steel, and unaffected?

What, specifically is Dicro-Clean 909?? It sounds like a detergent cleaner, which would make it more probably very, rather than slightly, alkaline. Since acidic solutions are usually the ones associated with attacking metal, but some notable exceptions exist ( warm alkaline spring water dissolved stainless steel grid used in archeological exploration; some chemist explained why simple galvanized steel would have lasted); what was going on here??

A more technical elucidation seems warranted.

Walt

 

[George Stringer]

Dicro-Clean is a detergent type cleaner that is used by gunsmiths when preparing a gun for rebluing. Gun parts are suspended in the cleaner mixed with water for 15-20 minutes at 180 degrees. The actual alkali content, I couldn't say. Slightly alkali is the manufacturer's description of their product. Not being a chemist I can't really say why the alkali reacted like this other than to say that where there are weakened areas it will get under the finish and remove it. It's sort of like Alka-Seltzer. I don't know why it fizzes and disolves in water; just that it does. BTW, the barrel was steel and unaffected. Winners? I don't really see any, but since Rob volunteered the prizes I'll let him be judge on this one. This was sort of a "trick" question I guess. I didn't really mean it to be. Anyway, the moral of the story is know what you are using on your guns. George

 

[Rob Pincus]

Awwww, geeez, George.... I said you had to be the judge.

I didn't see anyone mention "alkali" and certianly no one said "dicro-clean"

I guess I'll let the prize(s) roll over to the next "Gun Smithing Trivia Question" you come up with.

(just out of curosity, who were the two winners you were thinking of and why, Walt?)

 

[Doc Lisenby]

I learned that the coating on the aluminum alloy on these receivers was anodizing rather than paint. I know that aircraft are painted and primed with zinc chromate, so I just assumed that this was a fancy black form of the same type of paint. Anodized aluminum that I knew was anodized appeared granular, like a "French Gray" sandblasted finish. Learn something new everyday. I thought the Dicro-Clean #909 had either KOH or NaOH (lye) in it, as a lot of de-greasers have, but Brownell says it is non-caustic. And "caustic" is another name for lye so it must be something I've never heard of or else it is lye with a buffer which only allows it to become caustic at 180 degs. What do you say Walt? My med school chemistry prof has been dead twenty years so I'm a little rusty on the subject. I do know that anodizing is kinda like electroplating and there must be some electrolytic action occurring to remove it as happened here. The way I understand the anodizing process is that the bare Al is oxidized electrically (the Al is the anode-negative plate) and then dyed and pickled. Maybe the oxidation layer is still there "in the white" and only the dye is removed chemically. Doc (Class of '69)