Immigration

[Stagger Lee]

Couple of items on here about illegal immigration.

http://lagniappeslair.blogspot.com/

Seems like Denver just passed legislation to impound cars driven by unlicensed drivers--mainly people who are under court-ordered suspensions and illegals. Nice to see the citizens take a stand and put their non-responsive elected officials in check.

Also there's a guy in MD who puts up the money to bond illegals out when immigration locks them up. THAT'S the sort of stuff that'll kill this country.

 

[LightningJoe]

Come one, come all, but come legally.

Why have immigration laws? What is their objective?

 

[moddek]

they dont "take" our jobs...we give them away...due to unions and the avg american ego nobody wants to work on farms...or scrub our own bathrooms...if these jobs werent available in the first place they wouldnt come here to fill them...WE made these jobs available...i have personally worked with over a dozen legal immigrants in the landscaping business and they work better than anybody we have ever hired...beside my manager im the only white guy on the crew...our company has tried every differnt type of worker we can get our hands on and nobody can out work them...nobody is gonna agree with illegal immigration so im not even gonna go there...and shouldnt we be proud that such a large amount of people wanna live in our country...for example...i live in st louis, the county is a great place to live but the city itsself is crap...about 10 years ago we had bosnians moving in like crazy and every body got all upset...now they have nearly done a 180 in some of the worse parts of the city...and i dont think we should be blaming our economic problems on immigrants (esp mexicans) its not there fault we are just using them as a scapegoat...the last time a country used a minority as an economic scapegoat...Hitler killed six million jews...



and if i can quote the white stripes..."why dont ya kick yourself out, your an immigrant too"

 

[S832]

Its time for the federal government to get tough, send the federal agents into these cities which won't comply with the law. Start rounding em up and deporting them.

moddek, you can't compare then and now. Times changes, laws change, needs change. Just because immigration was OK then doesn't mean it is now.

 

[moddek]

it wasnt ok then either...wats your point...its gonna happen one way or another...let it happen and deal with it the best we can...we are not gonna stop it...we cant keep drug out of the country...they dont have legs to move themselves like immigrants do...and history has a nasty way of repeating itself...indians hated us when we moved in..."americans" hated the irish and germans when they moved in...we now "hate" the mexicans that are moving in...and on top of that there are very productive ppl in the world beside western europeans...are you looking for a white utopia?

 

[S832]

Its only going to happen because we let it happen, Americas "kindness" will be its death as the ones who are not so "kind" take over.

 

[redhart]

work

It keeps me busy!!

 

[Slugthrower]

The United States is no where near over populated. China may be at or near her maximum population at 1.3 billion. The United States has slightly more land mass than China. We can support a population at least double what it is at easily. We only use 0.9% of our GDP for agriculture. We can support many more. Only 0.6% of the work force is working in farming, forestry and fishing. The growth rate in our population is 2.1 per woman. It requires at least 2.0 per woman to maintain the population. There is little threat of over population.

The white American people have a growth rate much less than 2.0. If you are white, your race is in decline and will eventually cease to be. That growth rate is similar world wide. The white/European mans days are numbered. Not really a big deal if one can just accept it. Unless you start pumping them babies out like a factory.

The migration rate of the U.S.A. is +2.92 per 1,000. Canada's migration rate is +5.62 per 1,000. Apparently Canada has many more people, than the U.S. has, coming into her borders. This of course is legal immigration. Illegal immigration is wrong no matter what the reason and should be stopped cold.

The median age of the population in the United States is 36.7 yrs. old. We are an aging populace and need the influx of young blood. The baby boomers are a significant portion of our population and are leaving the work force real soon. That will be approximately 100 million people no longer contributing to the GDP. If we don't grow our population with young immigrants the standard of living will decline.

There is a need to halt immigration for 20 years, sort out who it is we have within our borders, and make those that are here illegally get out. Borders, language, and culture define a country. Multiculturalism shouldn't be a part of the government schools teachings. Languages other than English should not be used for business and the border needs to be monitored in an effective manner.

People like to think that all cultures are equal, they are not. The American Indians ( I am one ) were a culture stuck in the stone age and were not progressing. When your people are using stone tools and weapons it is a backward culture. The English culture had surpassed them in many ways and conquered them as a result. I love it when people talk about how peaceful the Indians were. We were killing and fighting amongst ourselves before and while the European immigrants were coming into the land. The lack of cohesiveness and infighting among the Indian led to their decline. If you are not strong, advanced, and united enough to keep the land, you will lose it.

If it wasn't for the English culture the United States would be a third world country. Heck, we might even be a fourth world country. There is good reason to limit the rate of influx of immigrants. If for nothing else, it takes time to assimilate people into the American way of life (culture).

Without converting people into good Americans and by promoting Multiculturalism we are inviting a Balkanization of the U.S.A. That is a sure way to destroy this country. Better learn how to work together toward a goal rather than against each other. This black, white, Asian, Indian, Arab, or other racial method of dividing ones selves should be done away with. Be American first and whatever other description you like second. It is the only way.

 

[wingman]

...are you looking for a white utopia?

What a shame each time that immigration is discussed we hear shouts of racism, for me it is simply the numbers too many too fast, limited controlled immigration will work but the current policy will not. Basically "illegal" immigration is a form of slave trading, I have lived on and near the border many years and seen the changes first hand the past 10-12 have been dramatic in crime and corruption.

The idea that we can sustain another 300 million may be true however the quality of life will be 50-100 percent less, I have been in third world countries with huge populations and no one should wish for that. If you believe you will retain the right to own firearms in such massive growth I believe your living in a dream world like many of our leaders.


America now takes in more people then all countries combined while we continue to lose jobs via outsourcing and loss of manufacturing at some point the feeding trough will be full.

 

[dalegribble]

Given that mcain is pro immigration, pro drilling and pro war I'm surprised he hasn't suggested invading mexico and not stop till he reaches the panama canal, building a fence on the north side of the canal to keep the ortega eliment out. Drill for oil everywhere in between.This would create new jobs for our new mexican/american population south of texas so there is no more need to travel north of nogalas for jobs. It would solve the gas crisis, eliminate the illegal alien problem, provide new jobs in the military, eliminate drug smuggeling, keep ammo prices high pleasing the anti gun crowd. These new high paying oil jobs will surely make good republicans of all our new mexican/american citizens thus insuring a new 1000 year reign for the republican party.

 

[S832]

There is no need to let anyone else in the US like I said before.

Japan has almost no immigration and they are the worlds leader in technology, so to say that you need immigration is absurd.

All the people coming in are from 3rd world countries, not 1st. We are acting as the worlds homeless shelter. We should only allow immigration from countries with an equal standard of living to the US, equal pay and similar culture.

I want to see the US population go down to 100 million, if we kept all the 3rd world immigrants out thats completely possible to achieve.

 

[Stagger Lee]

Australia only lets people immigrate into their land if they can speak English, pass a background and health screen, and bring with them enough money to prove that they won't be a drain on the Australian government.

 

[Jeffenwulf]

As far as I'm concerned legal immigration is fine, though should be much more limited than it is currently. Illegal immigration can't be stopped with fines if the individuals in question don't have the money to pay the fine. Jail time only costs us more money in taxes. Though we have many that overstay their visas and become illegal while in the country, that's only a tiny fraction of the number that are illegal the moment they enter the country. Why are we concentrating on the southern border? 80% of the illegal immigrants in this country are from Central or South America. There are at least 12 million illegal immigrants currently in the country, though Bear Sterns claimed about 20 million in 2006. Even if 12 million is accurate, that's approximately EQUAL to the population of Ohio or Pennsylvania.

Can you imagine the entire population of Ohio being illegal immigrants? Can you even imagine Cleveland being nothing but illegal immigrants? Take Cleveland, Cincinnati, Dayton, Toledo, Columbus, Akron ... not to mention the hundreds of other cities and towns scattered throughout the state. Or how about Pittsburgh, Philadelphia, Harrisburg, Scranton, Allentown, Altoona, Wilkes-Barre, Reading ... getting the idea? If you want to think of it another way, the 12M estimate is more than the total of the 12 least populous STATES. I certainly believe that this is a problem.

Since about 80% of those illegals are from Central and South America, that means that there are at least 9.6 (or 16, depending on which estimate you use) million illegal immigrants that most likely came through our southern border. If you look at the border counties, most are at least 75% Hispanic, with some in west Texas at over 95%. This is why most of us concentrate on the souther border, it isn't racism, THAT'S WHERE THE PROBLEM IS. If you can't or won't see that, you may want to consider whether your fear of seeming racist is getting in the way of reason.

 

[Slugthrower]

The right to keep our arms is a matter of being determined to not allow government to take it. The government can legislate me into being a criminal if they like. It still doesn't change the fact that people having no real weapons other than their ability to make them for personal defence is driven by the Nature of Man. The Founders were willing to give up all they had for liberty. How much are We willing to give up for the same? Without that will there can be no liberty.

I wouldn't want the population to double overnight. That would be a horror story to be sure. Part of the prosperity of the United States has to do with the productivity of the people. So long as we have a place for people to work they will benefit us all.

Outsourcing of jobs is a reflection on current government's over taxation and over regulation of businesses. Interdependence between nations doesn't lend itself to independence. The U.S. should lessen it's basing of business on services and gear up for production of goods.

Unless we are able to function independently without need for imports we are not on a good path.

To my mind, anything that we import should only be because we want them and not because we need them. We will only be great if we return to the basics and maintain that foundation. We must do what it takes to survive independently. Global trade is good to a point and at what point is the benefit a detriment?

For what it is worth, many people need to quit pushing pencils and get their hands dirty. How long will this game last when we are all expecting others to provide for our needs? A virtual slave class to an upper class of administrators will only lead to an insurrection in the end. It isn't enough to make money alone. If we allow the backbone that provided the structure for our body to rot in favor of the mind that provides services. We will become paralyzed and in turn be at the mercy of the others about us.

America has her problems and they stem from many things. Body, spirit, and mind all need to be strong. When one lacks the other will suffer. Balance is the way. Any who are willing to work should be able to do so and be rewarded as such. Those that are able to work and will not, deserve nothing. Those that are lazy deserve public shaming for the burden they place upon the others that pull their weight not a reward in the form of welfare.

This tax system that progressively punishes people for greater achievement needs to be abolished. All men should enjoy the fruits of their labor and no other man should be able to take from the productive to give to the non-productive. Any taxation upon the people should only be by consumption of goods rather than based upon income. This would go a long way toward helping businesses to want to stay in America.

The love of money is the root of all evil. Those things not earned are lost in short order. Only that which one has earned through hard work in it's many forms will last. We all have a role to play and those roles need to be filled.

People must understand that physical labor is as valuable as intellectual labor and it's rewards should be commensurate. All things have a price, most Americans are not willing to pay that price. For far too long, we have expected goods to be cheap and plentiful. America needs to check itself and soon. There is a great deal of decadence amongst ourselves. Are we so blind as to not be able to see it for what it is?

Look at what we consider poor...
The supposed poor are not. If you have a television, a stereo system, air condition, food on the table, an automobile, a computer, more than a few days worth of clothing, a dryer, a washing machine, or a dish washer among other things... you are not poor.

The standard of living in our country is so high, we begin to think of ourselves as poor when we can't afford to eat fast food and drive a vehicle for pleasure or to buy some sort of consumer good that really does nothing but entertain us. We are whiners to say the least. Maybe a good dose of reality is what we need in the form of a slightly lower standard of living. This way we will appreciate how well we have it here in the U.S.A. Hopefully that won't ever happen though. We do deserve enjoyment from the fruit of our labors.

Steady legal immigration will allow this along with rewarding businesses rather than punishment in the form of taxes. Maybe I am a fool for thinking such things. I don't believe that I am though.

 

[S832]

So the purpose of immigration in your mind is to continue to expand the low income pool of workers which will allow cheap labor for businesses. Brilliant............if you run a large company. Not so good if your one of those low income workers though, right?

Not to mention physical labor is going to continue to dry up, automation is going to take over most manufacturing jobs.

The need for people is simply dissolving, which is why birthrate in developed countries is going down.

 

[Epyon]

S832...

It seems to me the largest threat to America is immigration, it destroys job markets, destroys the environment and sucks resources. It displaces the current populace and impacts elections. We have people who by my definition aren't Americans, voting, effecting American laws.

I personally feel we should cut immigration down to 10,000 people a year and those people need to be coming from industrialized first-world countries, IE areas of Western Europe.

I'd have to say the largest threat to America is politicians asleep at the wheel and taking away our rights, but who put them there in the first place? Also, what is your definition of what's American? People from third-world countries come here for a reason, better economic opportunities that's what America is about, if you don't like the diversity go back to whatever continent you came from. Others come here as refuges.

The purpose of the American government is to further the interests of Americans, not have America act as a homeless shelter to anyone who wants in.

Hubris, the catalyst of the decay of nations. I do believe in legal immigration, but if someone wants to come here to better their life then there should be no reason to stop them, regardless of what country they come from.

Japan has almost no immigration and they are the worlds leader in technology, so to say that you need immigration is absurd.

Japan's labor laws, and work ethics are also different from our own.

if we kept all the 3rd world immigrants out thats completely possible to achieve.

Then you can say good-bye to your doctors, surgeons, and scientists because they're not from Europe. The west isn't the only power in the world.


Epyon

 

[S832]

Continue down the path that you want, America will end up as one of those 3rd world countries as its population will be made of people, from 3rd world countries. We should only allow those in who are equal to us, not below as they will bring the whole country down with them.

 

[madmag]

It's not about racism, or over population, It's just about the math. When you see an illegal worker providing what you may think are low cost goods, then think again. It's about supporting the illegal population and their extended families with free medical and social services. The cost is in the billions to support free services to illegals, not to mention some hospitals closing because they cannot sustain the cost of free care, which means everyone loses the ability to use that particular hospital.

The fact is, illegal labor is high cost...not low cost as some believe.

 

[S832]

Then you can say good-bye to your doctors, surgeons, and scientists because they're not from Europe. The west isn't the only power in the world.

Most are from Western descent, at least in the US.

I don't care about the "rest of the world" I care about the people currently in the US. Like I said before the purpose of the American government is to improve the lives and further the power of the American people, not act as a homeless shelter for the world.

 

[SRG]

S832, you know exactly why people are wanting to get into this country; your liberal friends and politicians believe that everything should be free. The government that robs Peter to pay Paul, will always get the support of Paul.

I saw your post on the county jails that Joe Arpaio runs in Arizona. You said that no one should be put in jail but let out to do good in other ways, that jail does no one any good. Well, our jails are filled with the very people you think should be disallowed from entering the country. You can't have it both ways.

Your liberal views will certainly be the downfall of this country. And, if you think it's bad now, just wait until Osama Obama is our president, God forbid.
You will see such a rise in mosques and muslim population and pandering that you will not believe. You WILL see "One Nation, Under God" disappear, bit by bit, as is happening in the United Kingdom. This scares me greatly.