Im disapointed in the Savage 10T chamber

Just a 0.002" difference is small. I've seen some cases with different loading histories show that much variation coming out of the same die setup. So it seems like you are managing things pretty closely.

If it turns out that 2.810" is both what comes out of the chamber, as fired and is also what you get after resizing with the +0.010 shell holder, as your data seems to show, then what you want to do is go to the next Redding shell holder in the set, the +0.008" shell holder, to see if you start moving your 2.810" shoulders back to 2.808". That would constitute a -0.002 "bump" and will be a good brass-working minimum.

Here's an alternative explanation to what you are seeing:
You are getting essentially the same dimensions for both new commercial ammo and your resized cases. It is not unusual for a once-fired case to let you close a bolt freely because it normally springs back a couple of thousandths in length after firing. You would have to neck size it and refire it several times before it really filled the chamber size completely. But what it unusual is you have proven you are resizing the sides of the case. Doing that lengthens the head-to-shoulder dimension by squeezing the case narrower and longer. Then the shoulder in the sizing die makes contact and extrudes the shoulder back.

Since you are not seeing a case come out longer than 2.810", I think your die is meeting the case shoulder. And since that resizing is returning you to the new cartridge case size, it suggests your chamber is actually at the SAAMI minimum or very close to it now and that what is tripping you up is that your resizing die is on the short side or your +0.010" shell holder is mislabeled.

Let's prove this one way or the other. First, take your 0.000 shell holder and the +0.010" shell holder and measure both with your caliper. The latter one should be ten thousandths longer. If it isn't, you want to make an actual deck height measurement with the depth probe that sticks out of the back of the caliper beam to measure from the top of the deck to wher the case head rests. Sticking a feeler gauge in gives you a good way to rest something on the case head surface and then measure to the feeler gauge. Add the feeler gauge thickness to your calibper reading and the +0.000 shell holder should giver you 0.125" and the +0.010" holder should give you 0.135" deck height.

If all that checks out, do what I suggested and go to a +0.008" shell holder and see if you don't get your cases to shorten another -0.002 so you no longer have any 2.810" cases. All 2.808" or so. If that works, it makes it look like the die is a little short.

Another test you can make is to set the feeler gauge on top of one side of the shell holder deck and resize a fired case, stopping on the feeler gauge. When you measure the head to the shoulder, it should be longer than 2.810" because of being squeezed narrower along the sides, and this will confirm that the shoulder of the die is pushing it back which would confirm the die is short.

Finally, you can sacrifice one case (I would just clean a range pickup for this) by resizing it with the +0.000 shell holder to confirm it gets too short.

Let us know what happens? If the die is short, I'm sure Redding will make it right, if you need them too.
 

RC20

New member
The assumer is on this sight tonight. What is it you don't understand RC?

Unclenick is his usual thorough and patient self.

Me? I would get a comparator, measure non fired case and then measure a fired case.

How many thousandths did it grow.

Then I would measure one of the .010 sized cases. How long is is?

Seems the simple approach to me but what the hey.
 
If you guys read post #9, you will find he already did those measurements, just using the spacers and caliper instead of the "official" tool for the job. He got only 0.002" spread between cases and even unfired commercially loaded cartridges. That's what put me to thinking he might actually have a fairly tight chamber and something on the short side for a sizing die. Perhaps some form of small base die.
 

RC20

New member
Sorry, I was not able to follow it.

Applause to Unclenick for doing so.

My apologies, I tend to dead nuts simple when I can get it. I saw far to much of the approach at work that in their case they wold get so off track that there was no understanding of what they were trying to prove.

I don't list my shoulder data either as I made my own adapters (modified them) so they have no relevance to the official ones, they just tell me what I need to know and where I need to go (and yes I left myself wide open on that comment0
 
The OP's measurements are like that too. You will notice they are as long a cartridge COL because the height of the spacer is being added to the case length at its point of contact. All relative measuring that depends on using the same tool to be meaningful.

I just want to learn if his die turned out to be long?
 

Longshot4

New member
It's a rat race around here. I appreciate all of what has been coming to me.
Although I am packing for a long hunt in the Keweenaw at my Sons farm. I now have my 50 long range 6mm CR loaded with the 95gr. SST to slay a buck with the Savage out to 400 Yds. and my 44 Mag. Ruger 77/44 iron sights for the woods.

I had just enough time to get the new loads in a fairly tight bulls eye considering. The first time and first season for both rifles. The rounds for the 6mm were fine. When I get back I will be doing some fine tuning and HOPE to get it straight enough to give a more precise report. After I re hash these threads again. We had our first snow today in SE Michigan but in the Keweenaw of Michigan out in Lake Superior it has been snowing for days.

Time to get packing.
 

hounddawg

New member
good luck with your hunt and if worse comes to worse with the Savage barrel swap it out with a Criterion from James at Northland. Get his trued recoil lug and nut while you are about it, those barrels flat out shoot. Had one I could not get to shoot out of five I have bought. Criterion replaced the one that I had a issue with on their dime and sent me the nicest barrel I have ever shot to replace it.
 

Longshot4

New member
It's been a wile. No buck on the hunt.

I was able to get a little target practice in though. My range was estimated by GPS. At 158 Yds. I zeroed the day before the snow started to fall. It took me 5 shots to hit the center of the target. There was a lot of learning required for the MRAD scope. I am a MOA guy historically. Well any how the next three shots were at aprox. 300 Yds. by GPS. I need to update to a good rangefinder. Although for the precision long range this ol guy is learning. I will be requiring some more advanced rest bags... for the future. Ranging with a MRAD scope defiantly requires stability. The Savage 10T seams to group well enough for a hart shot at 300 yds. It was a wobbly 2" group that dropped about 9" from the 158 zero. The 12Lb 8oz. 6mm CR seamed to beat the Duluth wind well enough. I will return with a new thread in the spring. If God is willing.
 

44 AMP

Staff
Is this a case of a oversize chamber?

OR...

is it a case of an over sized case? :rolleyes:

And I don't mean oversize = too large, I mean over sized = sized too much

So, is the question that your Savage rifle chamber is "oversize"? or is it that your special tight tolerance competition sizing dies are simply resizing the case too far for the fit you want??

I suppose its possible it could even be both??
 

hounddawg

New member
here is a question for the OP, how does it shoot? That's all that matters. If it shoots well keep it, if not sell or trade it. Life is simple.

edit the alternative would be to simply rebarrel, if you can change a sparkplug in a car you can replace the factory barrel on a Savage. Eabco will sell you a ER Shaw barrel and barrel wrench for $200 or so, Criterions from Northland Shooter supply will be about double that. You will also need a action wrench and a set of GO/No Go gages.
 
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reynolds357

New member
I have 30 single fireformed Lapua 6mm Creedmoor cases. I'm in the process of giving them a second light forming. So I want to have a tight chamber but it seems to be mighty loose. I sized the cases with a Redding type S Match die set using the Redding competition shell holders. They allow me to start .010 backed off of the shoulder. The bolt was loose before and after sizing. There was no sign of the shoulder being touched. Bolt closes with no resistance. Using the 0.010 shell holder I was expecting that the bolt would not accept the case. Although the cases were fired for the first time in the same Savage.

Is this a case of a oversize chamber? :confused:
Think about this fully. You fired the round in that chamber. No matter how you size it, its going back in the same chamber. (Assuming you dont stretch the case neck too much in sizing, )
 
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