If You Could Not Carry Hollow Points

[Jkwas]

I have the S&B soft points. They have a heavy slug, Flat point, and supposedly flatten somewhat. I don't know if that's true, I haven't shot them into a medium to see, but they do shoot nice and straight from my model 10 and they should at least penetrate as much as a SWC loaded to standard pressure. I wouldn't hesitate to use them for self defense if JHP's weren't available. I don't know if it was a hollow point design that expansion would be guaranteed at slower velocities anyway.

 

[liliysdad]

I would have no problems with 230gr Ball in a .45.

 

[Mister_Dinky]

Interesting thread..
Let's deal in "suppose"
Supposing you had to dispatch a perp in Nazi Jersey and you used a HP.
Supposing the perp was as dead as Julius Caesar.
Supposing the perp would be just as dead if dumped behind KMart as on your livingroom floor.
Supposing you had placed the perp in a body bag you bought for cash at the fun show.
Supposing you wore gloves and there were no fingerprints on anything.
Would the perp still be dead and would you ass still be in a sling, or would you have evaded persecution by a DA looking to make his bones?

 

[The Canuck]

Mister_Dinky,

You realize that what you suppose is that the OP conspire to commit a felony, right?

 

[HiltonFarmer]

Chezgris said:

if the lesser ammo gets you killed, it means you didn't continue firing until the threat was neutralized. I can't imagine any ammo, except perhaps FMJ (ball,) that will not stop most fights with 8 or more rounds.

Neither could I. Heck, if I had that many shots at such a close range ... surely to goodness 10 would be enough. If not, I should be using a stick - I might have better luck!

The crazy thing is, you can buy the bullet and reload HP yourself but In Canada, you cannot buy any type of preloaded HP.

I like the Federal Nyclads as an alternative. I wonder if I can buy them here

BTW - Why would you want to live in New Jersey?

HiltonFarmer

 

[Kennedy124]

Expansion isn't the only way to drop a badguy. Shot placement helps too ya know.

A shot to the crotch with ANY bullet will do it.

Then there's the lethal ways, which we try and avoid, but it can always happen. Center of chest, neck, T-line.

 

[Supertac]

I hope you're joking Kennedy. Try and avoid the lethal hits?

 

[FotoTomas]

The S&W model 10 is a great choice for home defense. Six shots of Lead wadcutter or semi-wadcutter (my choice) will fill the bill if hollow points are not allowed. Since hollow points ARE allowed for a handgun kept in the home and not carried on the street in N.J. then go with the 158 grain lead semi wadcutter hollow point at +P velocity. It was THE round that got the .38 off its knees. Known as the "FBI Load".

I think the .38 is a great choice for the home as it is very portable if circumstance requires movement in the home. A 20 or 12 gauge shotgun with buckshot in the bedroom is a great option, more "P.C." and you should not be mucking around the house if you truly think some bad stuff is going down.

 

[cuate]

Went to a big gun store this afternoon in Brownwood, TX., specifically looking for some .45 (.451) Round Nose full jacketed 230 gr. bullets. They had box after box of various brands of .45 hollow points in various weights. But "nary"
a round nose Like I wanted. Hollow points must surely be the choice in these parts ?

I shoot paper, cans, plastic bottles and small stones and standard round nose
has been satisfactory, is everybody hunting Bad Guys? Joke intended.

 

[Sarge]

SWC's will work fine.

 

[9x19]

NCHornet,

...and when the responding officers seize your weapon (and ammunition) as evidence, and look at the cartridges and see the bullets have a hollow nose?

...or when the DA passes that ammunition to the jury, few of which have any idea what a wadcutter is, but all of whom can probably understand "hollow point"?

When you have knowingly loaded a hollow base backwards, have you knowingly created a hollow point? Hmmm..... I wonder!

 

[NCHornet]

Good question, I would hope my lawyer would stand on the item description of where I purchased the bullets from, do you see the letter "HP" in "HBWC". I would argue the many ballistic differences between a jacketed HP bullet and the all lead HBWC, the deep hollow base is used for punching nice holes in the paper, it's not my fault they resembled a huge mushroom after gitting the BG!! I understand what you are saying and point taken, but my opinion on what type of bullet would still perform stands. This is a subject that you would need to get dleared up legally, if you lived in such a unfriendly gun state. This is someplace I won't even visit let alone hang my hat there. Listen this post should have ended when the member clarified that the OP's friend is allowed to carry HP for home defense and since it is unlikely he holds a CCW permit for this state, the rest of this post is just ideas that aren't relevant to the original question.

 

[NCHornet]

Went to a big gun store this afternoon in Brownwood, TX., specifically looking for some .45 (.451) Round Nose full jacketed 230 gr. bullets. They had box after box of various brands of .45 hollow points in various weights. But "nary"
a round nose Like I wanted. Hollow points must surely be the choice in these parts ?

I shoot paper, cans, plastic bottles and small stones and standard round nose
has been satisfactory, is everybody hunting Bad Guys? Joke intended

Most folks prefer to use a jacketed bullet due to how fast the lead can build up in a barrel. When I first started reloading I made my own bullets, I mean the whole process, it was very rewarding, but I didn't like cleaning all that lead, so I sold all the dies and melt pot, and now only load jacketed bullets and the guns stay much cleaner come range time.

 

[9x19]

NCH',

I hear you on willingly visiting places who fear my guns, but sometimes I have to go there on business... and yes I hate it!!!

 

[cheygriz]

I believe the main problem with "getting around the law" will not be criminal court. Criminal charges must be proven beyond a reasonable doubt. That's a very high standard indeed. If it's a good shoot, then it's a good shoot, and they will play hell convincing 12 people otherwise.

The problem will come with the inevitable "wrongful death" civil lawsuit. A civil suit only requires proof of "A preponderence of evidence." That's a much lower standard. A jury is much more comfortable with awarding damages against you than they are with sending you to jail. If you found a way to "get around the law" you can bet plaintiff's counsel will point it out to the jury. If your counsel can show that you "crossed the "TEEs" and dotted the "EYEs" to obey both the letter and spirit of the law, you will present a significantly enhanced image to the jury, and have a far greater probability of a favorable outcome.

 

[stevekolt]

Back to topic, I live in NJ, and hollow points are legal for home/business defense, but can not be used for carry. Yes, I know this makes sense to someone :barf: As far as the Federal Expanding Full Metal Jacket, and Corbon Pow'r Ball rounds they are not classified as HP ammunition, so they should be fine for carry. But as stated earlier, unless you are really well connected or very wealthy your chance of getting a carry permit in this state is much worse than your odds of hitting the lottery. We will be moving as soon as possible

 

[dakotashooter2]

All these post and nobody has mentioned a cast WNFP (wide nose flat point).

 

[dispatcher]

Don't know about NJ laws, but I'd rather be loaded with 158 grain hard cast SWC or flat point FMJ in .38 anyway. I don't want my bullet exploding on the crack pipe in the guy's pocket. Penetration with a .38 (and 9mm, .44, and .45) is a good thing I think.

 

[Hook686]

I would use 1100-1200 fps soft point .44 magnum loads. If they don't expand, then I do not see it much different than a hard cast swc. If it does expand, then it is like frosting on the cake. It is no longer the 'stone age', modern soft points might be better than those days.

 

[cje1980]

For the 38Spl if I couldn't use HP I would use a SWC or full WC of some sort. Just a plain jane 158gr SWC would probably be the best option. If I wasn't allowed to use HP I personally would choose a 44Spl or 45LC lead SWC. A 38 caliber gun just isn't that impressive without the use of HP.