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If they win … only our dead will be free.
- Thread starter fhp490
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01-17-2006, 06:29 AM #5
MicroBalrog
Senior Member
wrote:
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But - and putting aside your unprovable assertion Americans are now less free then in, say, 1970 (in some ways they are more free) - it is still important to notice that if we - Americans, Israelis, Germans, French - act swiftly, aggressively, and decisively, then, yes, we may yet get to win this one, and go home and make our homelands even more free.
Surely you gest ... do you have any idea how many muslems there are in the world ... the Crusades lasted 800 years, ending with the Christians being expelled finally. One muslem when asked after the 4th Armored Division rolled into Baghdad commented ... you do not belong here ... I will fight you til you leave ... if you have not left by the time I die, my son will fight you til you leave ... if you have not left by the time he dies, his son will fight you til you leave ....
Instead of, "... if we - Americans, Israelis, Germans, French - act swiftly, aggressively, and decisively, then, yes, we may yet get to win this one, and go home and make our homelands even more free" I think it might be better to try to figure a way to ameliorate the damage already done.
Marko Kloos
New member
The RAF was dismantled by plain old police work and the civil justice system, not military force.
MicroBalrog
New member
Surely you gest ... do you have any idea how many muslems there are in the world ... the Crusades lasted 800 years, ending with the Christians being expelled finally.
1. This is not a war against 'muslems' (there's no such thing, there's only Muslims), but against the terrorist organisations and the people.
2. The Crusades were fought not only in Palestine, but also in Spain... do you remember how that one ended up?
I think it might be better to try to figure a way to ameliorate the damage already done.
How are those opposed? Why can't we both use military force to fight in Iraq, Afghanistan, etc, while voting in our legislatures to repeal drug laws, gun laws, stupidity-of-the-day laws?
The RAF was dismantled by plain old police work and the civil justice system, not military force.
The point stated by my opponents was, and it was stated repeatedly here, that 'terorrism is an idea', and thus cannot be defeated by government force.
In fact, terrorist organisations have been repeatedly dismantled by government force, both military and police.
No, that terrorist aren't militaries, and can't be defeated by militaries. That's been pretty much what we've been arguing about.
You listed a bunch of terrorists that weren't beaten by bombing some country to hell. They were beaten by intelligence and police work. Destroyed just as much from the inside as out.
Specifically, AQ resided in Afganistan because it was convenient to do so. But we are told that their numbers are being built all over the middle east, including places we officially get along with. Further, many of the 9/11 terrorists lived in the US and Europe, as did the ones who tried the first bombing.
You keep insisting that you can crush the body of a terrorist organization with military power, and we keep telling you that terror groups don't have a body to crush. You can bite off the head, and that's what happened in the examples you gave.
Terrorism is an idea, and a description of a diffuse enemy that is embedded, not in charge. It is not removable, like a tumor. But you can find its source and bleed it out, like a poison. You're suggesting using surgery for lead poisoning. That isn't going to help, but it may kill the patient more quickly.
You listed a bunch of terrorists that weren't beaten by bombing some country to hell. They were beaten by intelligence and police work. Destroyed just as much from the inside as out.
Specifically, AQ resided in Afganistan because it was convenient to do so. But we are told that their numbers are being built all over the middle east, including places we officially get along with. Further, many of the 9/11 terrorists lived in the US and Europe, as did the ones who tried the first bombing.
You keep insisting that you can crush the body of a terrorist organization with military power, and we keep telling you that terror groups don't have a body to crush. You can bite off the head, and that's what happened in the examples you gave.
Terrorism is an idea, and a description of a diffuse enemy that is embedded, not in charge. It is not removable, like a tumor. But you can find its source and bleed it out, like a poison. You're suggesting using surgery for lead poisoning. That isn't going to help, but it may kill the patient more quickly.
MicroBalrog
New member
Umm, I think you should look up the Moneteneros and the Fedayyeen.
Marko Kloos
New member
This thread didn't start out too productive, and it hasn't improved any along the way. Let's put it to rest, shall we?
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