IDIOT at the counter today!

[Onslaught]

I know we have these from time to time, but they're always fun to read, and I need to VENT!!!

I'm not even going to be secretive, because this guy is such a moron spewing misinformation that I almost told the owner of the shop about it on the way out the door.

Around here, there's a fairly sizeable gun shop/range (Shooter's) owned by a super-nice and knowledgeable guy, and run by a couple more extremely friendly gentlemen (and one of them's wife) who are all super nice, extremely helpful, know what they're talking about most of the time, and DON'T talk about stuff they know nothing about.

But there's this one guy... he just works there... he's not a manager or anything like that, he just works the counter. Dark hair, moustache, pudgey, and talks a LOT. He's demonstrated on several occasions that he knows little and says much. I don't even let him help me anymore. Hell, I wish I knew his name, I'd put that on here too!

After lunch today, a couple of coworkers and I stopped by for browsing and accessories. At the counter, a young enlisted man is asking the MORON about 9mm +p ammo. The MORON says "if you're using this for defense, you don't want to use +p... it overpenetrates and then you've got legal problems when you hit an innocent bystander. What you NEED is this stuff (grabs GLAZER off the shelf). *** NOW HERE'S THE KICKER, GET READY *** "This stuff was DESIGNED for use on aircraft." "Then there's magsafe, which isn't a bullet at all, per se'. It's just a resin with shotgun pellets in the middle. You shoot somebody with one of these babies, and it completely tears them up"

This is from the same idiot that, when I was asking someone ELSE at the counter about some "full power" 10mm ammo, he told me that I wouldn't be able to hold onto the Glock 29 I was going to shoot it through, and (again with the Glazers) this is the best there is in a 10mm, and it won't knock the gun out of my hand". :barf:

 

[MJRW]

I love these threads. Funniest idiot I encountered - well, wasn't an idiot, just a funny coincidence which made him look like one - was a friend with an HK USP .40. I had been considering Glock awhile back and he just goes on tirades when he hears Glock. I point out that Glocks, if nothing else, will function. You can swim through a swamp, crawl up through sand, fall out of an airplane, spill your fries in it, and it will still shoot. He says "you want reliability, get an HK." Funny thing, his HK broke that night at the range. Hammer just wouldn't drop, then trigger wouldn't move, whole thing just seized up. I told him he should have bought a Glock. I don't even really like Glock .

 

[70-101]

Moron?

Thats the exact reason I do not use +p ammo in my carry weapons,over pentration in an urban enviorment. Why would I want or need a 357sig round to travel another 200 yards after it went through a bad guy? I also have no problem, with the Morons choice of Glazer Ammo,as a civilian personal defense ammo. I believe, Courts will look favorably upon these kind of decisions,by the concealed carry permit holder.

 

[Onslaught]

Thats the exact reason I do not use +p ammo in my carry weapons,... I also have no problem, with the Morons choice of Glazer Ammo...

If these are the points you took exception to, then perhaps you missed the **BRIGHT RED** note marking the exact information that I felt made him sound like a MORON...

"This stuff was DESIGNED for use on aircraft."

He's not a moron because he has opinions on ammo selection, any more than one person is a moron for choosing slow and heavy over fast and light... He's a moron because he's telling people things as FACT that are absolutely not true... I heard him EXACTLY, as I was standing next to the guy he was talking to... he didn't say "the Glaser design IS USED on aircraft", he said it was designed FOR use on aircraft.
So again, either you read me wrong, or you just got off work from your part time job at Shooter's

 

[jrock702]

lmao thats a good one !

 

[ronin308]

When I was visiting Pennsylvania a gun counter idiot told me that holding a handgun under the age of 21 is a felony and that I'd better give it back to him

 

[LeonCarr]

If memory serves me right (and sometimes it does) Colonel Jack Cannon designed the Glaser Safety Slug for use by the Air Marshals, on aircraft.

P.S. That guy is still a Moron .

Just my .02,
Leoncarr

 

[4V50 Gary]

That's Mr. Moron.

 

[Ledbetter]

Even a blind squirrel finds an acorn now and then.

 

[C.R.Sam]

I have more of a problem with the +P statement than the Glaser statement.

Any given +P round may be faster or slower than a similar round that is of standard peak pressure.

Sam

 

[don't shoot it's me]

That was you? Let me defend myself here. In the case of aircraft, i think "on" is an acceptable term for "inside" as in no smoking "on board". I didn't mean it was designed to take down aircraft...and for your information, my uncle owns the glaser company and someday it will be mine...so everyone should carry them...in the air or on the ground..now stay out of my store...name caller....

 

[Jesse H]

Thats the exact reason I do not use +p ammo in my carry weapons,over pentration in an urban enviorment. Why would I want or need a 357sig round to travel another 200 yards after it went through a bad guy? I also have no problem, with the Morons choice of Glazer Ammo,as a civilian personal defense ammo. I believe, Courts will look favorably upon these kind of decisions,by the concealed carry permit holder.

well, 357 vs 9mm...kinda different.

 

[Mike Irwin]

There's also absolutely NO guarantee that +P ammo will penetrate more than standard velocity ammo.

Bullet construction and expansion have more bearing on penetration than the pressure level to which the cartridge is loaded.

 

[JohnKSa]

It's entirely possible that the same bullet at higher velocity may penetrate LESS because the higher velocity causes it to expand more. The larger frontal area of the expanded bullet may reduce penetration.

And, if you really take it to the limit, you may cause the bullet to fail. That happens when a bullet is driven beyond its design velocity and basically disentegrates on impact. Penetration is virtually nil in that case.

Pentagon rediscovered this basic principle with their penetrator bombs. It turns out that as you increase impact velocity, penetration increases--to a point. After that, it starts to decrease again.

All that to say, it's not correct to assume that increased velocity will always result in increased penetration.

 

[Millsy]

This is taken right from the Glaser web site

The GLASER Safety Slug was carried by the sky marshals on planes for years, would they be safe on a commercial jetliner ... ?

The Safety Slug was extensively tested by the sky marshal service during the 70's and 80's. They were convinced that the GLASER had the most effective stopping power at close range, with the least likely hood of structural damage. Glaser is an excellent choice for any situation where there are a large number of people; where the danger of a ricochet hitting someone is great; or when a bullet passing through interior walls is a concern.

Seems to me, his only bad comment was about the 10mm kicking the gun out of your hands.
But that could be explained by, maybe he thinks you're a wuss!
Go kick his ass and prove otherwize lol

 

[Alexis Machine]

Personally, I'd have to ask who the moron is...the guy who says 10mm would kick a G29 out of your hand, or the guy that goes looking for "full power" 10mm FOR a G29, since a G29 doesn't have enough barrel to make a "full power" 10mm any more powerful than a standard velocity 40S&W

 

[Brian Busch]

The first guy is the moron, the second guy is just doesn't know. Theres a difference.

 

[Jim March]

You know, a lot of people trash the various frangibles because they may not penetrate enough. In something like .38Spl or .380 or below, that's almost certainly something to think about. In 9mm+P from a 5" barrel, or .357Mag from a 3" or better, I think the frangibles start to make sense for some situations. By the time you get to .44Mag power levels, the frangibles make a LOT of sense.

So where would the 10mm fit in that spectrum? Pretty far into the "might not be a bad idea" end .

We agree on the 9mm+P thing though .

 

[Thorazine]

Thats the exact reason I do not use +p ammo in my carry weapons,over pentration in an urban enviorment.

From my understanding any commerical JHP personal defense round needs velocity to reliably expand. One of the reasons why a slower moving 9MM 147 grain is more likely to over penatrate than a 115 grain which is moving faster downrange.

 

[David Park]

Well, I carry 9mm +P in an urban environment (when I'm not carrying a .45). Aside from the many reasons already mentioned why this might not be a bad idea, I realize that a self-defense situation does not suddenly invalidate the 4 Rules of Firearms Safety, and that by verifying my target and what is behind it I can minimize the chance that my killer hypervelocity Gold Dots will hit the innocent school kids who always happen to be standing behind muggers. Or something like that.