I shall fear 12-gauge recoil no more.

[Oleg Volk]

The first time I fired a 12ga pump shotgun with buckshot, I got hurt. The gun, a Mossberg 590A1, flipped up on recoil and bruised my cheek, in addition to hurting my shoulder. I made up my mind to avoid 12ga pumps, since even this large and heavy one kicked so viciously.

Years later, I had a chance to fire a 590A1 side by side with some store brand pump from 1960s, a mid-range SxS double and an Ithaca 37, all with birdshot. The 590 kicked worse than any of them, although it was also the heaviest of the four guns, again hurting my cheek.

Last week, I finally fired runt's 870 Wingmaster. It was a hefty weapon with a long barrel (24"?) and an extended tube. I finally worked up the nerve to fire buckshot though it. To my surprise, the experience did not hurt. Further, the least kick (or noise) came from 12-pellet S&B, the most from a 9-Pellet Remington, with 8-pellet Estate somewhere in-between. Moreover, the best patterns were a tie between S&B and Estate, with Remington far worse. The good performance of S&B was counter to most reports I've seen. Its recoil seemed to be a slower push, rather than an abrup jolt of other brands. Finally, the receiver stayed where it belonged.

The conclusion seems to be that magnum loads don't kick as unpleasantly as the so-called light/tactical loads. In that particular IC choke barrel, they patterned as well and had much less muzzle blast and report. And mean, heavy tactical-looking 590A1, which so impressed me visually, is much inferior for my taste than a sporting-looking 870 which runt owns. Seems that the advice to test for myself held yet again.

 

[C.R.Sam]

Yup, reality is how well all parts of the trilogy of gun, gunner and ammo work together.

Sam

 

[KSFreeman]

Recoil is mostly in the mind. However, so many people complain of recoil do not hold the weapon correctly. Elbow out, right thumb (if a righty) on the starboard side (ow! My nose), place it properly in the shoulder not the collarbone or the bicep, hold tight and press (not a jerk) the trigger.

As well, for some reason, a lot of shotguns are sold with stocks that are way too long. A stock that is too long spreads the operator out creating imbalance and allowing the shotgun to push you around.

Here's the test I always used as a gun counter salesman during undergrad. After ensuring the weapon is unloaded, grasp the weapon as if you will fire it. Now place the stock along your forearm and bend your shooting arm 90 degrees. Ideally you should be able to place one hand thickness between the butt of the weapon and your elbow (2 is O.K. too--good to be shorter than too long).

Once people realize that there is a proper technique to shotguns, they no longer complain of the "pain." Remember, it's cool to go to skul.

 

[Dave McC]

KS brought up a good point. Kick is somewhat in the mind, and getting over that hump is the hardest part.

Stock fit is important, tho I don't completely agree with KS. The thumb goes to port for a RH shooter, and if one's schnozz is getting bumped, the stock's way too short.

 

[Powderman]

Oleg, buy for yourself a Hogue CompStock.

I have one on my Winchester 1300, 18" barrel.

3-inch magnum slugs feel lighter than trap loads.

Trust me on this one.

 

[imspectre]

hogue compstock

powderman is right, the compstock is really quite good at killing recoil, you just have to get used to about an inch of compression, at first it's a little weird having a stock that squishes.

tossing out seven slugs from my 1300 defender without wincing afterwards is pretty fun.

 

[Dave McC]

I'm sure the Compstock reduces felt recoil. I'm even more sure that proper fit, form and practice do more.

Gadgetry is a poor substitute for expertise.

Check out the rack at your local trap range.Trap shooters soak up more recoil than other shooters, and do it longer. Chances are you'll see G- Squared, Gracoil, etc, stock mods, as well as that $1200 "RoboStock" from Precision Fit.

Now check out what the Local Legends use. Few of them have more than a pad for kick reduction. There's a lesson there....

 

[KSFreeman]

ARRRR, stow that starboard thumb on the starboard side, matey (smilie with eyepatch and parrot).

Dave, never have heard that one. Which skul teaches that? How do you shoot the Garand or the 1903 with their short stocks? Of course, I'm a big wimp and the only non-ex-SEAL, SF, SAS, RLI, Selous Scout on the ErrorNet so I am disinclined toward wacking myself in la nariz.

IMHO, keeping the thumb starboard allows the use of shorter stocks which helps recoil reduction, control (allows the operator to pull in more) and retention/CQB drills. I guess if I had a weapon with a longer stock you could do that, but I've never shot such a thing.

 

[PJR]

Recoil is in the mind and that's the problem. At some point after enough battering, the subconscious mind takes control despite your best efforts and no matter how tough you are a flinch results. The "cure" for flinching is to reduce recoil through improved gun fit, more gun weight, lighter loads, mechanical recoil reducers and release triggers (target shooters only). Better still is to practice some "prevention" to reduce recoil before a flinch develops.

If your thumb is hitting your nose under recoil then you are either crawling the stock or the stock is way too short. Keeping your thumb on the right side of the gun isn't a solution because it doesn't permit as firm a grip on the piece. I believe in longer stocks providing they are not so long as to prevent proper mounting and handling. A short stock is more likely to have greater perceived recoil in my experience. This is where gunfit is important in reducing felt recoil

Oleg's original post is very telling in this regard. His Mossberg smacked his cheek. That's a gun fit problem.

I like lighter loads and properly fitting guns. I haven't developed a flinch and don't intend to. Although having seen shooters develop a flinch overnight, I am prepared to deal with it. The precision stocks are quite ugly but they are remarkable things to shoot and are where I'll end up if I start flinching.

 

[TaxPhd]

Gun fit is key. The English have known this for a long time, and English shotgunners routinely have their guns fit to them (whether the gun is new, or second hand). This is, unfortunately, not done much on this side of the pond.

Case in point. My buddy's Win. 101 will beat my face most unpleasantly with relatively light loads (STS Lites). In my Beretta 682 Gold, the same load is most pleasant. Only difference is gun fit.

I almost must disagree with KSFreeman's method of determining proper fit. This "method" of testing whether a shotgun fits properly does nothing more than compare the length of pull of the gun to the length of the shooters forearm and hand. What this has to do with determining propoer fit, I don't know. Such things as muscle development/build, stance, etc. etc. are not taken into account. There is a lot more to determining proper length of pull. And this method does not address any of the other factors that contribute to a properly fitted gun.

YMMV

 

[Powderman]

I fully agree that stock fit is most important. Indeed, IMHO, it is probably the major factor in shooting a long gun that will have a telling effect on accuracy and comfort.

Another thing I like about the CompStock is that I was able to install a spacer which greatly increased the length of pull. That, plus the cam/spring action really soaked up the recoil.

I purchased a .300 Win Mag, Winchester M70 Laredo. The stock on that rifle just felt good when I mounted it to my shoulder. At my range sessions I have fired 80 rounds in an afternoon; full power rounds, too. I can hold as well on the last 3 rounds as I do on the first three, because the stock fits so well that recoil is not a factor.

And yes, a properly fitted stock will probably do just as well, if not better than, the CompStock. Unfortunately, I do not have the money--or the time--to get one fitted. Besides, this is a duty gun; hence the CompStock. Best $85.00 I've spent.

 

[KSFreeman]

Tax Doc, gee, I never intended my test to be scientific. I've seen those articles in the gun rags where they take measurements like a tailor. If you use the weapon as sporting equipment, there's much to doing that.

No, it doesn't take into account massive muscles like everyone else on the ErrorNet has from the years of lifting at ST6. However, even if you are one of those wiry, lanky office types (I can run through the pattern and hide behind a coat rack), proper technique and training can mitigate recoil. My rule of thumb relates to placement of the stock of the weapon and its relation to the right (assuming right handed shooter) elbow and the shoulder pocket.

As to placement of the thumb, I have never been instructed to place it opposite of my trigger finger. Where is this taught--I am unaware. Yes, it's counterintuiative (as some training must be), however no shotgun (you must train on all types) has beat me upside the haid.

I guess the best advice for Oleg is to try different ways, but some edukashun never hurt either.

 

[TaxPhd]

Sorry if my last post came across with a contentious tone - that wasn't my intent.

I ask this only trying to understand, not to joust with anyone.

What does the previously described fitting method tell you, and why?

I contend that it only compares forearm and hand length to the length of pull of the gun. How does this determine that the length of pull is correct or incorrect?

Sort of like the airport security person laying the blade of your pocketknife across their palm to see if it is legal. All this shows is length of blade compared to width of palm. Does it determine legality? Of course not.

 

[K80Geoff]

I was taught by old timers to measure shotguns as KS Freeman does. And the guns always hurt.

When I started shooting clays I learned differently, now they don't hurt.

A good gunfitter will not only find your proper measurements but teach you how to hold the gun to lessen recoil.

Few people take up Skiing or Golf without lessons. Shotgunners should take lessons too.

My $.02

 

[TaxPhd]

Geoff,

Are you shooting 28 gauge through a tube set in your K80?

If so, which tubes, and how do you like them?

 

[Dave McC]

My first deer rifle was an 03, and I can use a stock 870 stock well enough. But, a longer stock works better for me over the long run. I can shoot the kids' 20 gauge Youth Express OK, and it has a 12 1/2" LOP.

But, the TB comes in a little under 15", and the new M/C stock on Frankenstein is a hair shorter, and I may be wingshooting better than ever with them.

Powderman, don't get me wrong. IMO, the Compstock is far from worthless.But buying one before getting good form and fit down is cart before horse.

KS, no Selous Scout or Green Beanie here either. I was a scared, half trained kid trying to get home. And I did, as much by the fortunes of war as from skill.Maybe more...

 

[HKguy9]

Pain? I get off on it! Bwahahahaa

First time I shot a pump shotty my shoulder was all friggin pink and blue. It hurt like a mofo. Finally got around to do it right, it still pushes quite a bit, but nothin' like it!!

 

[JIH]

I'm sure the Compstock reduces felt recoil. I'm even more sure that proper fit, form and practice do more.

Sure, but put them both together, and you can shoot all day long. Using a compstock may be gadgeteering, but it's gadgeteering that works... as opposed to vertical foregrips and HoMeBoY nYtesites.

One observation I've noticed about neophyte shotgunners is they're also not that good with ammo selection. When you're starting out, stick to the "tactical" lower-recoiling loads. Definitely don't start out with 3" or 3 1/2" magnum loads. Walk before you run.

Heck, that goes for rifles too... how many poor young guys have you seen at the range that pull out their first rifle, a .300 WIN MAG (because if it says "Magnum" it must be cool), and then begin hollering, "JESUS CHRIST! OH GOD, MY ARM! MY ARM!" That rifle may never be shot again. However, if they'd started out with a .308 or .243. they'd have been much better off.

 

[Dave McC]

JIH, I can shoot all day long without one. because I know how and my stock fits. I'm sure that a Compstock would help me on a triple digit round day, but it wouldn't help very much w/o good form and fit.

 

[wp]

590a1

I bought a 590a1 last year myself, and took it to the range only to get beat silly (and black and blue ). If anyone gets a chance to feel the factory pad mossberg puts on those guns you would understand why they hurt,as they are SUPER HARD rubber with no give ( i guess to stand up in combat ) but no form or shooting style helps. I shortened my stock 1" so as to reach the controls better and installed a UNCLE MIKES medium size recoil pad and ground it on a taper to match the stock. My wife is 110 lbs and i took her to shoot it for the first time and she had no problems with recoil,( the weight of the gun was another matter) but it made it feel and function like a totally diferent gun.OH YA it only cost me 15.00 so i would HIGHLY recomend the change.