I saw Black Hawk Down last night

[El Rojo]

Question for Waterdog.

Waterdog, are you just wanting to see it without knowing any of the details period or are you wanting to see it without knowing what happens in the end? I would think if you were wanting to save the ending for the movie, it would be like watching Patton for the first time not knowing if we would win or not. History is made and the ending is already set. It was sort of like when I started watching Band of Brothers, I hadn't read the book. By episode six the book was done and I knew exactly what happened next. So I guess if you haven't read the book, it will still be a surprise.

 

[flinch_of_gt]

Two of TFR's Super Blackhawks (twin GE Miniguns, plus Delta snipers) were shot down. Two others were hit and forced back to base. Most of the airpower came from the MH-6 "Little Birds" which probably saved TFR's bacon. I don't know where the AC-130 Spectres and the Cobras (attached to 10th Mountain Division) were.

 

[fivepaknh]

The only African-American with lines, Specialist Kurth (Gabriel Casseus), is one of the American soldiers who want to get into the middle of the action; his lines communicate his simplistic gung-ho spirit.

Has anyone here ever met a Ranger that WASN'T gung-ho?

Take a look at the latest class photo taken at the Ranger school at Benning. http://www.benning.army.mil/rtb/ranger/photo/10-01.jpg . Out of about 100 guys about 12 are black. Directly proportionate with the ratio of blacks to other races in America. I know not all the men in Ranger school are going to a Ranger bat, but I'm sure it's still representative of what you would see in a battalion.

Bottom line, Elvis Mitchell is a moron.

 

[IanS]

A Review by a Civilian

I read the book a year ago (re-reading it again) and I was lucky to see it over the weekend. (Really unfortunate servicemen and family members didn't get a preview before schmoe's like me)

For those who are only vaguely familiar with this story read the book by Mark Bowden, go frequent boards like www.cinemayhem.com (in the Black Hawk Down Forum) where there are real TFR/10th Mountain/Marines who were there, and look up other sources for better perspective. Its even more horrifying and moving than what Ridley Scott put on celluloid.

Still, the movie is pretty good overall and it should be a satisfactory account for most TFL members; even those who are rabidly Anti-Hollywood. But it should be a starting point and a quick overview of what happened that day. Despite some of its shortcomings it is a Must See and it does manage to honor the memory of TFR/Delta/Night Stalkers/10th Mountain who were there.

But IMHO, Saving Private Ryan is still the best in terms of capturing the fog of war, the anarchy, desperation, and immediacy of combat.

 

[VinceMP]

Wow. From Hero to Zero
----------------------- http://www.newsmax.com/showinsidecover.shtml?a=2001/12/28/163659
Friday, Dec. 28, 2001


Everyone knows how the Hollywood elites love to rewrite history - just look at Oliver Stone's nutty "JFK" and "The Day Reagan Was Shot" - but why is "Black Hawk Down" celebrating a rapist?

"The Army pressured the filmmakers of 'Black Hawk Down' to change the name of the war hero portrayed by Ewan McGregor - because the real-life soldier is serving a 30-year prison term for rape and child molestation, says the man who wrote the book that spawned the movie," the New York Post reported.

McGregor plays Ranger John Grimes, a desk jockey called into battle during Bill Clinton's Somalia disaster in 1993.

Author Mark Bowden, who also wrote a screenplay for "Black Hawk Down," says the character is based on Ranger John "Stebby" Stebbins, "but Pentagon officials asked his name be changed in an attempt to keep his shame a secret," the Post reported last week.

The ex-Ranger's embittered ex-wife, Nora Stebbins, complained in an e-mail to the Post: "They are going to make millions off this film in which my ex-husband is portrayed as an All-American hero when the truth is he is not."

Stebbins was court-martialed and sentenced on June 8, 2000, the Post said. Janet Wray, a spokeswoman for Fort Leavenworth military prison in Kansas, confirmed to the newspaper: "We have a John Stebbins here. He arrived on June 9 last year and is serving a 30-year sentence for sodomy with a child under 12 and rape."

In the book, Bowden says Stebbins had tried and failed to join the Army three times during the Persian Gulf War. Mocked by his fellow soldiers as "chief coffee maker" and "paper pusher," he surprised everyone with his heroics in the Battle of Mogadishu.

A Revolution Studios mouthpiece claimed that the name change was "a creative decision made by the producers." (Changing a name is Tinseltown's idea of creativity? No wonder there were so many horrible movies this year.)

As NewsMax previously reported, "Black Hawk Down" hushed up Clinton's role in the Somalia fiasco and the rise of terrorism. Several NewsMax readers have noted, however, that the movie "Three Kings," starring Bill O'Reilly's nemesis George Clooney, had no such qualms in blaming President G.H.W. Bush for problems in the Gulf War.

But why should it surprise anyone that a Hollywood movie whitewashes and honors a rapist? After all, Hollywood movie makers whitewashed and honored a certain White House rapist.

 

[Vladimir Berkov]

I bet when the NYT wrote a review of "Titanic" they thought the ship should never have hit the iceberg.

 

[Bud Helms]

'Word is that Sec Def Perry held the AC-130s out of the fray to avoid endangering "innocent" civilians.

 

[Jeff White]

Les Aspin was Secretary of Defense at the time. He stood up and took the fall for the failure. He resigned a little after that. I'm not convinced that he should have taken the fall but he did. I think State and the National Secturity Council was more involved in actually running the op then DOD.

Jeff

 

[Bud Helms]

Les Aspin ... you are correct.

 

[RenegadeX]

Waterdog - if you do not want to know what happened, do not read this thread!

AC-130 - SECDEF Les Aspin denied the use of these planes in Somalia. Only after the raid around 10/8, did they arrive.

Stebbins - I do not care if he was one of the 9-11 hijackers, his role should be accurately portrayed, and his heroic actions documented.

 

[Bruegger]

Ian11 - I read the book three times, including the original serial presentation on the Philly Inquirer’s site. Agreed that the movie wasn’t a perfect adaptation of the book (how can any movie do that in two hours?), but it was doggone faithful to the book and did a great job of bringing it from the printed page to three dimensions.

B.H.D. wasn’t quite two hours of the Omaha Beach scene of S.P.R., but it was intense.

As for the Stebbins/Grimes character, he’s hardly the main character, and his felonious actions after the fact – no matter how repugnant – don’t mean that he didn’t do his duty in combat. Mrs. Stebbins has reasons to hate the child molester’s guts, but that doesn’t change historical facts – that the coffee boy picked up a rifle and did his job. That’s like saying Ira Hayes shouldn’t be recognized as one of the Mount Suribachi flag-raisers because he died a drunk.

One of the really cool effects in the movie is the camera’s treatment of the smoking brass ejected from the vehicle-mounted MGs.

S/F,
Bruegger out.

 

[MAKOwner]

Saw the movie myself today as well (divx).

I thought it was extremely kickass. Exactly the kind of movie I had hoped it would be (fairly realistic, no typical hollywood plot/character crap). Loved it, can't wait to see it in better quality at the theater.