I Don't Know Anything About Kimbers, But...

Joe_Pike

New member
I guess the question is: would you rather have that gun or $1500?

For that kind of money I'd probably pick up a Dan Wesson Specialist or put some more money with it and get a Les Baer Monolith.

Like I said, I don't have a thing against Kimbers as I've never owned one. I just didn't know if this was a highly prized 1911 or, as I suspect, that my LGS (that I used to buy a bunch of guns from) has had prices get out of hand. Most of their used guns seem to be about 95% of new price anymore. Must have something to do with the new owners.
 

orionengnr

New member
I've owned about 25 1911s in the last 25 years.
I do not currently own a Colt, a Springfield or a Para...or any number of other 1911s. That is intentional, and is due to negative experiences with (multiples of) each.

I own (and carry) a Kimber. I own (and would carry) a Les Baer. I own (and a year and a half later, will not yet carry) a Dan wesson CBOB.

As of today I own an S&W SC1911. When I have put a number of rounds through it, I will consider carrying it.
 

thinktwice

New member
To the OP I personally wouldn't pay that much for a used Kimber. That being said I do own several Kimbers. I also own Colt's & Springfield's. So I am not just a Kimber fan. I do not own any of the upper end 1911's yet so in all fairness I can not compare the others to say something like a Wilson, or Brown. The most expensive Kimber I own is the "Custom Shop" CDP Pro Carry. All of the Kimbers I have shot and own have been tack drivers, and fit and finish has been near perfect. I think you hear more of the complaints about Kimbers because they produce more 1911's than any of the other major manufacturer's put together. So simple mathematics explains why you see more complaints on Kimbers production pistols. I am not saying they are perfect, as all manufactures produces lemons. I think that the number of Kimber's produced and purchased is why Kimber gets such a bad rap. Once one person has a problem with a Kimber it spreads over the net in gun forums like wild fire, then everyone else chimes in. But again I think it's the mass number of the pistols they make and sell. Just my opinion.
 

Auto426

New member
What's that? A dealer charging a ridiculous price for a used 1911? That would never happen.

The last gun show I attended had a fellow who sells classic Colt autos and revolvers as well as classic S&W revolvers. He's got some very nice guns, and believe me he knows it. When I was passing by his table he was showing a fellow a used Colt Gold Gup with no box or papers that was made in the late 1970's. He told the guy that he couldn't let it go for any less than $2000. I almost busted out laughing on the spot. :rolleyes:
 

bdb benzino

New member
I think a couple reasons that Royal goes for almost $2000 is, some come with uncommon bone grips and I beleive that model has blueing done by Turnbull. I am not trying to legitimize the price, but have you seen how much a Turnbull blue job runs? A lot!
 

rbernie

New member
^^^^

This.

The reason that the Royal is so expensive is due to the deep gloss finish, and all of the handwork involved in getting that finish.
 

pilpens

New member
I have 2 Kimbers, a Custom II .45 and a Target Custom II in 9mm. I am happy with them.

$1500 for a Kimber is too much for me. I would look at Springfield Armory TRP or a Dan Wesson before a Kimber at this price range.
 

KyJim

New member
The guy has not sold anything previously so I'd be a bit wary at that lowball price.
Yep, a guy recently got ripped off for about $1,500 on a low ball Ed Brown 1911 from that same auction site by someone who had never completed a sale. They seller had a fake drivers license and everything.
 

dgludwig

New member
I personally wouldn't give the $1,500 the LGS is asking. You have to wonder why such a steep discount.

Personally, I don't think the discount quoted is all that "steep" for two reasons: Firstly, most firearms sell for less than the MSRP in the first place (which, in this instance, is reportedly $1,975.00 and my guess is that the Kimber pistol in question probably sold for considerably less than that when new) and, secondly, the pistol is, after all, now used.
 

johnbt

New member
"You do hear about their guns not being reliable and parts breaking."

It's to be expected given the huge number of guns they sell compared to all of the other makers. According to the last ATF Manufacturer's report Kimber sold over 87,000 pistols in one year. So yeah, they probably had a few problems compared the all of the other manufacturers who only dreamed of selling half as many. Or a quarter as many or even a thousand in the case of the custom shops.

John

P.S. - Here are the 1998 to 2010 reports: www.atf.gov/statistics
The 2011 report is due out.
 

5RWill

New member
Yeah but to sale so many with bad QC doesn't bode well for their reputation, especially considering what it was. There are more than a few "bad kimber reviews" and it's been that way for quite some time now. They're products look great, cost premium, but fact is they've had QC issues for some time now, in both rifles and handguns.
 

Shoot45's

New member
Be very careful when buying unusually low priced guns on Guns America.
There's been a lot of scams going on there lately. People sending money and getting nothing in return, ffl or not.
Try to find something locally and if you're buying used make sure it's FTF.
 

Joe_Pike

New member
Well, someone thought it was a bargain. I stopped back in today and the Royal II was gone. Worth it or not, it sure was purty.
 

johnbt

New member
"Yeah but to sale so many with bad QC doesn't bode well for their reputation"

So many? How many is that? You see a few posts on line about bad guns - or a few dozen - (heck, make it a few hundred or a thousand) and you think that's a lot percentage wise?

They sold over 87,000 guns in 2010 and probably more than that last year and now all gun sales are up and you have no hard numbers about problem Kimbers.

The actual percentage of Kimber's production that has a problem could be very low. Without whipping out the calculator, it appears Kimber makes more 1911s than all the rest combined. And the other companies have QC problems too.

John
 

5RWill

New member
Well yeah the larger companies have QC issues, kimber a lot more than most it seems. When looking to spend 1500$ on a 1911, DW comes to mind which i've yet to read a negative comment or review about. So why take a chance?
 
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Venom1956

New member
I can lodge a complaint about Dan Wesson! Since owning my Valor I haven't shot any of my other autos besides my .22s!

DW makes a fine gun. The Specialist looks very nice. I wanted the 'BEST' Dan Wesson 1911 So I went with the Valor

You could look into the Heritage which can be had for close to 1000. No MIM, just a quality cast frame, and less hand fitting.
 

johnbt

New member
"DW comes to mind which i've yet to read a negative comment or review about."

They made 3.91% of Kimber's production. So that's one of the reasons you haven't read a negative comment is because Dan Wesson didn't sell very many guns.

From the ATF report for 2010, CZ bought Dan Wesson in 2005. For guns bigger than 9mm and smaller than .50, they made...

3132.

Same category for Kimber = 80,051.

Dan Wesson made less than 4% of the guns Kimber did. (3.91%)
 

larryh1108

New member
To the OP, that is a fine gun but it is worth closer to $1200, not $1500.

To those who feel a 200 or 500 round "break in" for any gun is stupid, well, all I can say is you are going to shoot it anyways! If it works 100% after the break in all you did was shoot ammo you were going to shoot anyways. You would not carry a new gun anyways without putting 200-500 rounds thru it anyways so all the point is you want the factory to break it in and then you'd complain that it isn't "new" any more. Really, what is the big deal? You're going to shoot it anyways!

To the guy with the blog link. I understand you saying that having issues with an $800 gun is not what you want. However, if it needed a new recoil spring and a new or tuned extractor (which Kimber would have sent for free) then why would you want to send it off to Kimber, have them pay $100 to ship round trip only to do something you, or someone familiar with the 1911 platform, can do in 10 minutes and wait 6-8 weeks to get it back? Kimber gave you the hard time because they probably knew that it was just a minor tweak and they wished to save the time and money. I know it's a matter of principle but who suffers in the long run? The consumer pays the bill. Sure, QC should have caught it but any 1911 owner should know how to change a recoil spring and tune an extractor. It's part of the platform. Sure, send it back on their dime but it will be our dime on our next purchase. There's principal, there's common sense and there is being bull headed.

As to those who made the comment that for a few dollars more you get a 1911 without MIM. Is that a good thing or is it subjective? If it works fine for 20,000 rounds and has some MIM parts does that mean it still sucks? The MIM bashers just jump on a bandwagon without just cause. Internet old wive's tales is all it is. Kimber/Mimber, what a joke.

I don't know any maker of 1911 pistols that doesn't have occasional extractor issues or whatever. However, their great CS is what makes them cost $2500 or more. Sure, you can say Brand X stands behind their 1911s but all that means is you paid for their service up front. You don't mind sending your beautiful 1911 back to Maker X because they were so wonderful on the phone. However, the fact remains that you had to send it back. Send back a Kimber and their QC sucks. Send back a known name brand and it was just a minor tweak which they fixed for no charge. You forgot the extra $1000 it cost up front, though. Ah, the price we pay for quality. I bet Mercedes Benz, BMW, Acura, et al, have the best customer service out there. They probably kiss your backside from here to eternity to make you feel warm and fuzzy. However, you think they did it for free? LoL, I bet you do!
 
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