I blew up a $5000 Sub Gun.

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predator86

New member
no, do not sue them, if you sue them and win, what happens? the store will most likely go out of business, just realize that what everyone did was stupid, be thankful that you walked away from the incident. if the store goes out of business that is one less gun store in america, one less place to go to rent machine guns....this is not the idea. havent we learned from the manufacterer's lawsuits of a couple years back??? smith and wesson? colt? suing places like walmart is acceptable, dont sue to hurt our hobby:mad:
 
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johnwilliamson062

Moderator
I was at a Pheasant hunt deal where we were shooting at blinds as they released pheasants. Lame I know, whatever, we hunted in the fields afterwords so it was good and he pheasant still tastes good.
Anyways there was another guy shooting the exact same ammo as me, but 16 GA, and you had to empty your gun before you moved blinds. He was older and didn't want to bend over and pic up the live shells I guess. Anyways 3rd or fourth blind in I eject my 12 ga shell, it falls on the ground, I pick one up and head to the next blind. BOOM, much louder much more kick for some reason brass was all split up in the chamber, had a hell of a time getting it out. No discernible damage to the shotgun.

Not nearly as cool as your story, but I thought I would try.
 
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Crosshair

New member
no, do not sue them, if you sue them and win, what happens? the store will most likely go out of business, just realize that what everyone did was stupid, be thankful that you walked away from the incident. if the store goes out of business that is one less gun store in america, one less place to go to rent machine guns....this is not the idea. havent we learned from the manufacterer's lawsuits of a couple years back??? smith and wesson? colt? suing places like walmart is acceptable, dont sue to hurt our hobby
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Agreed. The most I would ask for is for them to cover medical costs and lost wages. I don't think that would be unreasonable.
 
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tighty whitey

New member
No Serious Harm, No Foul

Glad that you are not seriously injured. I believe that if you had been injured you would have a case against the shop. I am a lawyer and don't handle PI cases but everyone got lucky, thankfully!

P.S. HAPPY BIRTHDAY!!
 
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SIGSHR

New member
The one time I fired 9MM out of a .40S&W barrel (I assumed it was a 9MM barrel) out of my Browning HP I got lousy accuracy and bulged cases, normal functioning and ejection.
 
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Skan21

New member
+1 on lack of credibility.
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I would never sue a gun store based on injury to myself, unless it was very severe. This was just a few scraps of steel. No big deal. And for those of you that think I'm BS-ing you, It's easy to find out. Call up Manchester Firing Line, Manchester NH, and ask. My Bday is listed in my profile, so just ask them about their former UMP 40. And don't call me a liar unless you are willing to put in a 5 minute call. They have a website. However, I don't go back there anymore, because I'm kinda embarrassed. But I'm sure that that doesn't happen that often. Just so we are clear, I don't hold MFL liable. They have 4 or 5 sub guns, all in 9mm, except for that UMP. It was just an accident. And as for suing, I can't imagine going up in front of a judge and saying " Yes your Honor, even though I spent 5 years in the Infantry, I don't know the difference between a 9mm and a 40 S&W, and I neglected to check if I was given the correct ammunition." Yeah, that would go over just great. Besides, MFL gave me 2 extra boxes of ammo, and let me use their MP5K at no charge. Oh, and I don't have any pictures of the gun because I didn't have a camera. Who brings a camera to the range?
 
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Skan21

New member
Oh, and one more thing, I thought a new H&K UMP would be more than $1200. I figured it would be worth a few MK 23's at least. That's why I figured $5000.

That would make sense and so by that reasoning and the story, there should have been 2 rounds in the barrel plus the 1 round in the chamber?
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There was.
 
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MLeake

New member
For those who want to challenge Skan21's story...

... if you want to do that, why not contact the range and ask them. That way, you can either confirm your suspicions, or you can apologize to him.

He said Manchester Firing Line. That range's website is gunsnh.com

Contact info:

50 Gay Street
Manchester, NH 03103-6815
(603) 668-9015 phone
(603) 628-7663 fax

I'd think that if you want to call somebody a liar, you'd be man enough to check your facts. I don't know if the story is true or not, but it's conceivable that a double squib could cause an interesting failure; not sure about a full detonation, but why not?

I blew up a .44 magnum a few weeks ago with a .44 special squib. Blew the barrel apart all the way to the frame. Awaiting word from S&W as to whether it's a repair or replacement issue. Luckily for me, no injuries. If you want to challenge my story on it, let me know, and I'll tell you what range to call.
 
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JohnKSa

Administrator
Interesting. I have see 9mm fired twice from .40 Glocks and the only result was that the case hyper expanded in the chamber, sub-loud report, and failure to cycle of the gun. The bullet went down range, but apparently not terribly far.

So what is with a HK UMP 40 that it would not be able to contain the ignition of the round and would blow up?
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That's a very good question.

I've seen a number of 9mm rounds fired in a .40 pistol with no unusual results other than repeated malfunctions and dismal accuracy. The guy on the firing line in front of me at a GSSF match fired maybe 10 rounds before he figured out the mistake. I picked up one of the deformed empty casings and have it sitting in front of me as I type this.

Ok, in order for this to happen, the first round had to go past the chamber into the barrel where it became an obstruction when the second round fired. HOWEVER, the second round had to somehow be stopped by something so that it could be fired.

I did some experimentation just now and here's what I found.

A 9mm round CAN go down the barrel if the extractor doesn't catch it. It might hang up at the front of the chamber but if it does it's far enough forward that the firing pin can't reach it. I suppose it's possible that if the round in question had a SWC type bullet the lip of the SWC bullet might hang up on the front of the chamber while keeping the primer close enough to the breechface for the firing pin to reach it. Seems pretty improbable.

HOWEVER in both of the pistols I tried, a .40 extractor will catch a 9mm round and the engagement is quite positive. One of the pistols is a cutaway which gives me enough access to the round to try to pry it loose from the extractor. I was unable to do so with a reasonable application of force.

So while I can see how one round might have gone down the barrel and become an obstruction if the extractor were very loose, that event would seem to be incompatible with the second round NOT going down the barrel as well. The UMP does have an extractor and the picture I was able to find doesn't provide any evidence for the idea that it would let a 9mm round past it.

For the incident to occur as described the first round would not be engaged by the extractor and the second round would be caught and held quite firmly by the extractor. I can't say that could NOT happen but it seems to be quite unlikely based on my experimentation and what I saw at the range. One very plausible way that this could easily happen is for the second round to be a .40S&W instead of a 9mm, but that is not what the OP indicates.

Assuming that the story is true, I would say that it was some sort of a freak accident and not a reasonably expected consequence of firing 9mm in a .40 firearm.
 
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GringoGrande

New member
I think you need to stick to booze and paintball

1. Unlikely story. No full auto range ever allows someone to take a piece until they are checked out at the stall for ability to operate the firearm.

2. On the first suspected FTF and you did not check the chamber / barrel, I am shocked. Anyone familure with Class III Full Autos know to do this, especially on a closed bolt hammer fired models.

3. In all my years in going to the busiest full auto shoot in the nation, Knob Creek Range in Kentucky twice a year and a place on the firing line for 4 years, I have never, ever even remotely have seen the wrong ammo used in a sub or for that matter any full auto. I have seen FTF but you always and I mean always clear the piece, no exceptions.

4. You are the operator of the firearm, NOBODY else is responsible for YOUR actions. You are in control of that firearm no matter who loads, who gave you the ammo or anything else, YOU and you alone.

5. You truly need to not shoot real firearms, not to mention full auto's you never fired before, semi or full, ever! Please for everyones sake, shoot paintball or softpell airsoft only. Better yet, stick with the Mall Ninja Video games

Sorry if I offended anyone here, but if this is even remotely true, then you are a reckless fool and give all firearm owners, gun shops, ranges and shooters a bad name.

Has anyone called this so called range to verufy this cock a mammy story ?

Regards,
Gringo
 
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johnwilliamson062

Moderator
If I rent a gun I expect a little help with it. I don't think he would responsible for knowing safety rules specific to FA guns or generally 100% responsible for it if he is renting the firearm. I just wonder how you missed that no cartridges were ejecting when you hand cycled.
 
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skydiver3346

New member
H&K blow up:

:eek: Lesson learned. Wow, would like to see the pics of that one.

I would go back to the Jack Daniels! Chalk it up as a lesson learned. Consider yourself very, very lucky you didn't lose an eye, etc.
Oh yes, go out and buy some lottery tickets too. Good luck to you in the future.
 
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Bud Helms

Senior Member
GringoGrande,

Back off a little, buddy. "Reckless fool" is name-calling and that qualifies as a personal attack. wouldn't you say?

Now go read Rule #3, here.

Be sure your comments here meet your own standards of civilized, polite speech. State your case, read it over for clarity and civility, post it. If your post would offend you, if directed at you, maybe you should reconsider.
 
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GringoGrande

New member
John, that is what I am saying, You would expect help from the range officer. NO class three range will just hand over a weapon to someone they have not checked out, Just does not happen.

Regardless of help or not, it is incumbent on the person holding the firearm to know what the heck is going on at all times or just not handle weapons.

Range and firearms safety is serious business and if some knucklehead cannot follow simple rules of safety or use their own brain for a cpl seconds, then they truly do not need to be on that range or even owning or firing a weapon of any kind.

Sounds HARSH, yeah maybe, but this whole subject is a serious case if at all remotely true. The firearm operatior, the range, the wife, etc... the entire process failed if this STORY is true, but in the end, the OP is the only person finally resposible for their actions on a range.

I wonder if he sky dived, would he let his wife pack his chute, or scuba dived, allow his wife to fill the air to the tank near the exhaust of a fuel powered compressor?

It is one case for Darwin Awards if true, if not, keel haul the op at dawn for a BS bogus thread. Stupidity, apathy or ignorance of firearms safety on any of their parts is no excuse.

I am done with this thread and unsubscribing. totally not worth this time.

Gringo
 
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