How well do .308 ARs tolerate surplus European Ammunition?

[agtman]

Interesting thread, ...

... but all I tell you is that my LMT 7.62 MRP LM8, which uses the MagPul 7.62/SR25-pattern mags, runs hiccup-free on either commercial .308 FMJ or the old surplus 7.62 fodder I've had laying around for years.

Now, for sure, some of both is more accurate than others of both, but I took the OP's query to be asking about operational reliability - as in feeding, chambering, firing, extracting, and ejecting - in relation to both types of ammo.

No problems in the LM8, whether suppressed or unsuppressed.

 

[davidsog]

Have you done much reloading using both 308 and Nato 7.62 x 51 cases interchangeably for the same cartridge configuration?

I have had training in reloading as we had to be able to use a hand press out of a rucksack if needed but no I do not reload as a hobby.

There are lots of guys "in the community" that do. They rounds are interchangeable.

If someone has worries about it PM me and I will take all that "dangerous" .308 or 7.62mm brass.

Just put your mind to rest!!

By the way....you can get a ~6000 psi difference in the same chamber with the same bullet depending on which transducer is used and the method it is installed. If you are interested I can post the reports from two lots of 7.62mm NATO. It very nicely illustrates the fallacy of comparing SAAMI, CIP, and EVAT testing.

Chicken Little is alive and well in the .308 vs 7.62mm NATO civilian world debate.

 

[stagpanther]

Just put your mind to rest!!

I do--having reloaded many thousands of them over the years and tested them for fit and function.

 

[davidsog]

I do--having reloaded many thousands of them over the years and tested them for fit and function.

So you are not going to send me that brass??

 

[stagpanther]

So you are not going to send me that brass??

Hmmm--well you did say you don't reload--why would you want it?

 

[davidsog]

Cause I have lots of friends that do!!!

 

[davidsog]

Credit to FALPhil for the excellent article, btw!

https://thefiringline.com/forums/showthread.php?p=3308632

 

[Guggmeister]

I handload 308 and just ditch nato marked casings. I measured the inner volumes and the difference was too big.

Also the difference in case volume between different manufacturers of 308 is much higher both relatively and absolutely than in 223/9mm/45/etc.

I measured these myself some years ago when I got a FAL and my 308 usage skyrocketed.


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[Guggmeister]

Have you done much reloading using both 308 and Nato 7.62 x 51 cases interchangeably for the same cartridge configuration?

A 308 ”max load” becomes a crush load in a nato casing using Vihtavuori N140 powder.


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[davidsog]

just ditch nato marked casings.

Send em to me, LOL!

A 308 ”max load” becomes a crush load in a nato casing using Vihtavuori N140 powder.

NATO specs do not account for home-made recipes or different combinations other than what is specified.

Of course you will run into issues.

 

[davidsog]

I love the idiotic fine lines being draw.

Here is a similar analogy to that being drawn in the civilian sector .308 and 7.62mm NATO.

Not too long ago two SU-27 aircraft came up for sale in US civilian market.

They are same aircraft flown by the Russian Air Force.

https://theneomag.com/

They do not have the same capabilities. The Russian Air Force variant has sophisticated targeting equipment and weapons designed to kill other aircraft. The FAA approved civilian aircraft do not.

.308 is the same round as 7.62mm NATO. If you are handloader, then load it to specification and the two are interchangeable.

The specification is what defines 7.62mm NATO. If you load anything else then it is NOT 7.62mm NATO but a recipe of your own creation so act accordingly as your own test pilot.

 

[agtman]

Would this be correct(?):

The 308 and 7.62 NATO cartridges are closer to being, essentially, the "same" round and therefore are interchangeable in rifles marked by either designation, than are the .223 and 5.56mm cartridges, which many folks think are absolutely interchangeable, when in fact some .223 rifles are known to choke on 5.56 ammo.

 

[stagpanther]

I measured the inner volumes and the difference was too big.

Oh-oh--somebody's getting close.

 

[davidsog]

Oh-oh--somebody's getting close.

Any .308 case or 7.62mm case will hold ~46 grains of BL-C(2) and a 147 grain bullet.....

Would this be correct(?):

The 308 and 7.62 NATO cartridges are closer to being, essentially, the "same" round and therefore are interchangeable in rifles marked by either designation,

Yes, and Aberdeen will tell you the specification is the same. Today we would call it "cut and paste" as the US Army simply adopted Winchesters own specifications.

While the military version—the 7.62x51mm NATO—wouldn’t see duty until 1954, Winchester couldn’t keep a secret, and released the new .308 Winchester in 1952, in their Model 70 bolt-action rifle and Model 88 lever gun.

https://thefiringline.com/forums/showthread.php?t=559785

The .308 Winchester is the civilian version of the military’s 7.62×51 NATO cartridge, which is not to be confused with the somewhat similar sounding 7.62×54R cartridge of old.

https://blog.cheaperthandirt.com/308-great/

Its power, performance, and inherent accuracy makes the .308—also known as the 7.62x51mm NATO—equally at home in a belt-fed machine gun or a super-accurate bolt-action hunting rifle.

Winchester introduced the .308 to the commercial market as a sporting round in 1952 after being developed for the military, though it wasn't adopted as the 7.62x51mm NATO round for two more years

https://www.range365.com/308-winchester-762-nato


Now, here is a snapshot of the specifications for 7.62mm NATO and its variants.

http://www.inetres.com/gp/military/infantry/rifle/762mm_ammo.html

If your 308 cartridge does not meet these specifications then you are not shooting 7.62mm NATO despite using NATO brass but have put on your weapon prototype testing hat.

I wish you luck!

 

[bfoosh006]

BTW... My PSA PA10's 18" Nitrated, 18" SS another 18" Criterion Barrel Nitrated SS and another 20" PSA HBAR... all with adj gas blocks handle surplus 7.62x51 just fine.

And all of them love the "Sanitized DAG"
First group 20rds DAG rapid fire... 100yds

Second group 10rds Hirt rapid fire, 100yds

Third group DAG again20rds rapid fire, 100yds

 

[bfoosh006]

XM80 10rds rapid fire , 100yds

FGMM 168gr 10rds rapid fire, 100yds

7rds FGMM 168gr..., 100yds

 

[bfoosh006]

10rds 175gr FGMM RF, 100yds

'79 Port 10rds RF, 100yds

10rds 155gr Hornady AG, RF 100yds

 

[stagpanther]

bfoosh--what is sanitized DAG? That's some great shooting especially for rapid follow-up.

 

[bfoosh006]

Buffmans video shows it best... the headstamp is milled away... looks questionable strength wise... but danged if it doesn't shoot well.

German Law somehow...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?time_continue=21&v=VTf7w9AQv-s