How to create a Fascist State in 10 easy steps

SecDef · Apr 24, 2007

From Fascist America, in 10 easy steps, here's the summary:
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1 Invoke a terrifying internal and external enemy

2 Create a gulag

3 Develop a thug caste

4 Set up an internal surveillance system

5 Harass citizens' groups

6 Engage in arbitrary detention and release

7 Target key individuals

8 Control the press

9 Dissent equals treason

10 Suspend the rule of law
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Seems to me that 1,4,6,7,8 are already in effect, 9 is implied all the time from the bully pulpit, and if 10 occurs, is it is too late.
As for 2 and 3, google search for "REX 84" and "Blackwater"

This list pretty much sums up why I became a firearm enthusiast within the last 5 years, BTW. I never had exposure before, and went out of my way to instruct myself.

Yes, I know that The Guardian isn't the best source, but it is useful to think about these things and to think about personal liberties and freedom in America.

FirstFreedom · Apr 24, 2007

I think all of those are in place, for the most part, except (thankfully) number 8 and 10. The press is highly critical of the present federal admin, and rightly so. They are not controlled (yet), and as long as we have that speech, we have some hope. We have several gulags. One that's not secret (gitmo), and quite a few that are secret. Not sure exactly how a "thug caste" is defined, so not sure on that one. The rest have long past happened. Well, ok, dissent does not yet equal treason...but dissent = accusations of unpatriotism. So I don't want to engage in hyperbole.

junkpile · Apr 24, 2007

...can we honestly say that American is Fascist, in the same vein as Benito Mussolini or Adolph Hitler? Can we even say we are headed towards either one of those societies?

Not really looking for your response, just wondering, if you ask yourself honestly, rather than a knee-jerk reaction to someone's opposing opinion, do you think that we're heading for a facist state? Fine if you do, I cannot possibly concieve of debating this, this is more for knowing if you're serious or not.

SecDef · Apr 25, 2007

Fine if you do, I cannot possibly concieve of debating this, this is more for knowing if you're serious or not.

I'm serious. I don't like carnivore, I don't like people being released from Gitmo after 5 years with exactly no charges against them, I don't like the fact that if my neighbor's house is searched when he is away it is a felony for me to tell him or anyone else, I don't like the fact that we are in Iraq under the GWOT moniker, I don't like signing statements, I don't like states that make concealed carry virtually impossible, I don't like taking my shoes off at the airport and being told that I need to live in a state of fear, and I CERTAINLY don't like documents that make the govt accountable being "misplaced". When the govt stops being accountable to the people and becomes its own entity, there is a problem.

This is simply a look at what would need to occur for the US to become fascist -- not saying we currently are. I was surprised when I read this to see how many I could check off in my head. Honestly, it didn't start off as serious, but it does make me think.

They didn't add in "disarm the citizens" in this list, but I'm sure it would need to be there.

Archie · Apr 25, 2007

SecDef said:
1 Invoke a terrifying internal and external enemy

Okay, the Democrats have done that; gun owners and Christians – ‘the religious right’ - being the internal enemy. Maybe the external ones, too.

SecDef said:
2 Create a gulag

Does allowing criminals to run free and forbidding self-defense in order to keep honest citizens locked up in their own homes count?

SecDef said:
3 Develop a thug caste

I’d say all the lawsuits bullying conservatives and Christians verbally and emotionally are pretty much a thug caste. So far they’re not using actual physical force so much, except when they book a school shooting to justify more gun control.

SecDef said:
4 Set up an internal surveillance system

Another bogeyman for an internal enemy. The idea some secret spy is monitoring all our email is ridiculous. Not to mention the international communication monitoring is a far cry from ‘internal surveillance’.

SecDef said:
5 Harass citizens' groups

You mean how the ACLU sues anything and everything remotely pro-US, pro-Christian or pro-Constitution?

SecDef said:
6 Engage in arbitrary detention and release

You’re talking about the abuse of Congressional hearings, aren’t you?

SecDef said:
7 Target key individuals

The President, the Vice-President, the Attorney General, other cabinet members… yeah, sure enough, right on target.

SecDef said:
8 Control the press

Except for AM talk radio and Fox, the liberals have the press absolutely under control.

SecDef said:
9 Dissent equals treason

Currently, dissent equals ridicule.

SecDef said:
10 Suspend the rule of law

Yeah, look at how liberals conduct elections and how liberal judges view ‘legality’. Rule of law means nothing to liberals.

SecDef said:
I don't like people being released from Gitmo after 5 years with exactly no charges against them…

Since Gitmo houses foreign combatants – prisoners of war, essentially – what charges are appropriate?

SecDef said:
I don't like the fact that if my neighbor's house is searched when he is away it is a felony for me to tell him or anyone else…

So how many of your neighbor’s houses have been searched while they’re away?

SecDef said:
I don't like the fact that we are in Iraq under the GWOT moniker…

I think you’re drinking too much kool-aid.

SecDef said:
I don't like signing statements…

What statement have you had to sign under duress?

SecDef said:
I don't like states that make concealed carry virtually impossible…

All the liberal controlled states: California, Massachusetts, New York, New Jersey…

SecDef said:
I CERTAINLY don't like documents that make the govt accountable being "misplaced".

You’re talking about Sandy Berger stealing those documents from the national archieve, aren’t you? Stinking liberals.

SecDef said:
When the govt stops being accountable to the people and becomes its own entity, there is a problem.

So what’s your solution? What’s the point here?

SecDef · Apr 25, 2007

So what’s your solution? What’s the point here?

I don't have a solution. My point in posting this is simply to provide a particular point of view and elicit a response. Yours was interesting. Quite funny. Oblivious, but charming.

Since Gitmo houses foreign combatants – prisoners of war, essentially – what charges are appropriate?

The question is why were they released if we were still at war?

Why do you think it is only for foreign combatants? All you need is for the president to call label you an "enemy combatant" and you'll find yourself there, too. No habeus corpus, no representation, no appeal.

What statement have you had to sign under duress?

Feel free to avoid this discussion if you don't want to participate.

So how many of your neighbor’s houses have been searched while they’re away?

I can't even imply that they have without opening myself up to a felony charge.

There ain't no free lunch, except Jesus.

I have to provide my gardener a free lunch?!!?

Playboypenguin · Apr 25, 2007

...can we honestly say that American is Fascist, in the same vein as Benito Mussolini or Adolph Hitler? Can we even say we are headed towards either one of those societies?

Pretending that America is somehow magically immune to such things is almost a sure fire way to make it happen. Do we forget that Hitler was democratically elected into a free society?

SecDef · Apr 25, 2007

Perhaps I should have defined fascism. This is from my dictionary:

The term Fascism was first used of the totalitarian right-wing nationalist regime of Mussolini in Italy (1922–43), and the regimes of the Nazis in Germany and Franco in Spain were also fascist. Fascism tends to include a belief in the supremacy of one national or ethnic group, a contempt for democracy, an insistence on obedience to a powerful leader, and a strong demagogic approach.

and reflect that definition against such quotes as this one:

"I don't know about the liberals, but I'm not going to try to be popular and change my basic principles to do so. I still don’t read the newspaper, I don’t follow the polls, and I still know that the culture of life is better than the culture of evil, which is just live spelled backwards, see? I’m the decider, and I’ll keep on decisioning until God tells me to stop, cause the American people has also decided, see, by keeping me in office."

Axion · Apr 25, 2007

...can we honestly say that American is Fascist, in the same vein as Benito Mussolini or Adolph Hitler? Can we even say we are headed towards either one of those societies?

No I don't think we can. But I do think that if we let our guard down that corruption in government will quickly get more and more out of control and before long we COULD be headed down that path. I think a certain level of distrust of government is a must to maintain a free society.

junkpile · Apr 25, 2007

No I don't think we can. But I do think that if we let our guard down that corruption in government will quickly get more and more out of control and before long we COULD be headed down that path. I think a certain level of distrust of government is a must to maintain a free society.

(emphasis mine)

I concur 100%.

Al Norris · Apr 25, 2007

SecDef, there is a bit more to facsism than the dictionary definition that you provided. Your definition is but one of many different sides of a fascist state.

Some General Ideological Features
by Matthew N. Lyons

I am skeptical of efforts to produce a "definition" of fascism. As a dynamic historical current, fascism has taken many different forms, and has evolved dramatically in some ways. To understand what fascism has encompassed as a movement and a system of rule, we have to look at its historical context and development--as a form of counter-revolutionary politics that first arose in early twentieth-century Europe in response to rapid social upheaval, the devastation of World War I, and the Bolshevik Revolution. The following paragraphs are intented as an initial, open-ended sketch.

Fascism is a form of extreme right-wing ideology that celebrates the nation or the race as an organic community transcending all other loyalties. It emphasizes a myth of national or racial rebirth after a period of decline or destruction. To this end, fascism calls for a "spiritual revolution" against signs of moral decay such as individualism and materialism, and seeks to purge "alien" forces and groups that threaten the organic community. Fascism tends to celebrate masculinity, youth, mystical unity, and the regenerative power of violence. Often, but not always, it promotes racial superiority doctrines, ethnic persecution, imperialist expansion, and genocide. At the same time, fascists may embrace a form of internationalism based on either racial or ideological solidarity across national boundaries. Usually fascism espouses open male supremacy, though sometimes it may also promote female solidarity and new opportunities for women of the privileged nation or race.

Fascism's approach to politics is both populist--in that it seeks to activate "the people" as a whole against perceived oppressors or enemies--and elitist--in that it treats the people's will as embodied in a select group, or often one supreme leader, from whom authority proceeds downward. Fascism seeks to organize a cadre-led mass movement in a drive to seize state power. It seeks to forcibly subordinate all spheres of society to its ideological vision of organic community, usually through a totalitarian state. Both as a movement and a regime, fascism uses mass organizations as a system of integration and control, and uses organized violence to suppress opposition, although the scale of violence varies widely.

Fascism is hostile to Marxism, liberalism, and conservatism, yet it borrows concepts and practices from all three. Fascism rejects the principles of class struggle and workers' internationalism as threats to national or racial unity, yet it often exploits real grievances against capitalists and landowners through ethnic scapegoating or radical-sounding conspiracy theories. Fascism rejects the liberal doctrines of individual autonomy and rights, political pluralism, and representative government, yet it advocates broad popular participation in politics and may use parliamentary channels in its drive to power. Its vision of a "new order" clashes with the conservative attachment to tradition-based institutions and hierarchies, yet fascism often romanticizes the past as inspiration for national rebirth.

Fascism has a complex relationship with established elites and the non-fascist right. It is never a mere puppet of the ruling class, but an autonomous movement with its own social base. In practice, fascism defends capitalism against instability and the left, but also pursues an agenda that sometimes clashes with capitalist interests in significant ways. There has been much cooperation, competition, and interaction between fascism and other sections of the right, producing various hybrid movements and regimes.

Having read that, consider the evolving "partnership" of the state and big business, as it is becoming in America today. Not fascism, you say? You would be wrong.

Remember what the people were told to do, right after 9/11? Go out and spend (to paraphrase)!

There are some parallels in the Nationalist movement in Germany. What was not done there (and then) can be accomplished here. This is the form of facsism that you should be worried about, as it is currently evolving in our society today.

SecDef · Apr 25, 2007

Thanks for that definition... "Fascism" is a very misunderstood term that has degraded as merely an insult to someone regardless of where they lie on the political spectrum.

It is a very vague term and many dictionary definitions punt by pointing out the examples without better clarification.

Redworm · Apr 25, 2007

Okay, the Democrats have done that; gun owners and Christians – ‘the religious right’ - being the internal enemy. Maybe the external ones, too.

The Republicans have done that with Muslims, too. Christians, at least, are a majority for the time being and have a way to fight back. It's a shame that they're being put on the defensive but considering they've been at the forefront of the offensive for so long I'm not shedding a single tear for the people whining they can't have genesis taught in science class or stopping medical advancement because they think a single cell has all the rights of a human being.

I’d say all the lawsuits bullying conservatives and Christians verbally and emotionally are pretty much a thug caste. So far they’re not using actual physical force so much, except when they book a school shooting to justify more gun control.

What about the bullying - verbal and physical - by christians over the past century?

Another bogeyman for an internal enemy. The idea some secret spy is monitoring all our email is ridiculous. Not to mention the international communication monitoring is a far cry from ‘internal surveillance’.

NSA wiretaps? Echelon?

You mean how the ACLU sues anything and everything remotely pro-US, pro-Christian or pro-Constitution?

You’re talking about the abuse of Congressional hearings, aren’t you?

Jose Padilla

Currently, dissent equals ridicule.

And treason according to Fox and the talk radio programs you previously mentioned.

Yeah, look at how liberals conduct elections and how liberal judges view ‘legality’. Rule of law means nothing to liberals.

You mean elections where Democrat votes are thrown out by officials in a Republican state? Mhm.

Since Gitmo houses foreign combatants – prisoners of war, essentially – what charges are appropriate?

Gitmo houses American citizens as well. That being said you can pretend all you want that those people in there are all "terrists" trying to kill us but the reality is that without being charged there's no proof that they've actually done anything wrong besides having Arabic sounding names.

So how many of your neighbor’s houses have been searched while they’re away?

Oh so just because it hasn't actually happened to him means it's nothing to worry about? Well your guns haven't been forcefully taken away so why the hell are you worried about gun control?

I think you’re drinking too much kool-aid.

Kool-aid is tasty stuff though I prefer all natural fruit juice. Either way you have to make a massive leap of "faith" to believe that IRaq had anything to do with anyone involved in 9/11 or any other terrorist act...up until we invaded that country and opened the door for Al-Queda to walk right in. Thanks, Georgie!

What statement have you had to sign under duress?

Signing statements.

You’re talking about Sandy Berger stealing those documents from the national archieve, aren’t you? Stinking liberals.

I made a thread concerning this: http://thefiringline.com/forums/showthread.php?t=244844

You cannot excuse the crimes of one group by pointing out the crimes of another. Both are equally guilty.

Waitone · Apr 25, 2007

Interesting the Guardian points to fascism in America. I submit the UK is further down the road to fascism than is the US.

BTW, Antipas nailed it! We have two political parties engage in frantic efforts to turn over governmental functions to private organizations. A host of constitutional issue lurk in such actions. . . . as if constitutional issues are of concern.

johnbt · Apr 25, 2007

The Guardian? :barf:

Ask anybody.

"Editorial articles in The Guardian are generally in sympathy with the middle-ground liberal to left-wing end of the political spectrum. This is reflected in the paper's readership: a MORI Poll taken between April and June 2000 showed that 80% of Guardian readers were Labour Party voters (cited in International Socialism Spring 2003, ISBN 1-898876-97-5); according to another MORI poll taken in 2004, 44% of Guardian readers vote Labour and 37% vote Liberal Democrat[1]."

SecDef · Apr 25, 2007

The Guardian?

Ask anybody.

I did point that out in my OP. If you can only attack the messenger and not the message, should I assume you have no qualms with the message?

MrApathy · Apr 26, 2007

rise to fascism wont include the word fascism.

look up the history of liberal fascist and how they changed the name to conceal themselves.

liberal progressive and neoconservatives these are wolf in sheeps clothing hook line and sinker and idiots have fallen for it.

they do a excellent job destroying the country at same time divide that nation and make it ripe for infighting which can bring about the bonds of slavery and tyranny. its a puppet show distraction for fools oh look at the left hand now look at the right hand. its a show for fools.

not just the USA but any nation they want. Afganistan,Iraq,Iran and who knows what else.

no other nation in the world has more foreign bases than the USA. FBI offices around the world and all sorts of Alphabet agents in foreign nations and even local communities here at home. Government informants in about every group worthwhile atleast for a peak for information collection to build a file. some instances they manipulate people conduct stings and do some shady stuff that is truely questionable such as what happened during the 93 wtc combing. sting operation using real explosives.

create a shadowy enemy that is everywhere that drives fear,paranoia,distrust and allows incrementalism.
anyone that questions it is called unpatriotic at the least and whole other sorts.

media is not free and more people are fools than they would like to admit.
group thinking is not a strength unless your goal is revolution.

zero tolerance,political correctness,propaganda err public relations,could write a long list of stuff that is all wrong and screwed up.

this is not freedom this is damn near absolute control over our lives.
you should see what technology is coming around the corner and what they plan to do with it.

http://www.digitalangelcorp.com
UGV Unmanned Ground Vehicles or remote controlled killers terminators
soon to have AI. robart,darpa crusher,talons
nbic,transhumanism great tool for enslavement with augmented reality a goal.
global information grid,net centric warfare,british skynet. hooked into video camera's in every Major city maybe even small insignificant cities with all sorts of data mining software keep total information awareness on the people of the nation a program which is running right now despite being shifted and renamed.
Rex 84,ADS Active Denial System crowd dispersal system.

Americans are fools. Government has gotten away with crime after crime
with little accountability for the same reasons Hitler rose to power and got away with Murder. Hitler was Evil but He was Fighting Evil. The German people bought the Big Lie.

outside of Fascism is Authoritarianism
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Authoritarianism

how many corporations own the stations for tv and radio? number is down sharply. the stock market right now is fueled by Mergers and Acquisitions.

UN building in New York the land was donated by relatives of Standard Oil monopoly. the Rockefellers a prominent family that has family members in government and has founded alot of think tanks and councils. alot of them that are rather New World Order like. one example is Council on Foreign Relations-CFR and the creation of the North American Union. btw most americans dont know Dick Cheney was a member of the CFR. Cheney is buds with Rockefeller and oh hey Cheney has connections to Oil as well.

undermining USA sovereignty
http://www.cfr.org/content/publications/attachments/NorthAmerica_TF_final.pdf
for the video's
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e-Ccjqy8mhY
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BbnpN07J_zg

fast internet required for the video's
series of movies from the BBC
covers propaganda
Freud,Freuds Nephew Bernays and Nazi propagandist Goebbels
dont know them watch the movies and learn.
or search wikipedia on them

alot of propaganda these days.
alot of propaganda dunces as well and treat it like the gods
honest gospel dont question it much and will even become fascist when challenged.
fascism,totalitarian and authoritarianism is becoming quite prevalent in society do you recognize it any? Systems of Control?

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-2637635365191428174&q=The+Century+Of+The+Self
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-678466363224520614&q=The+Century+Of+The+Self
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-6111922724894802811&q=The+Century+Of+The+Self
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=1122532358497501036&q=The+Century+Of+The+Self

The Author of a Book "Propaganda" Edward Bernays
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Edward_Bernays
info on the book
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Propaganda_(book)
the book
http://www.amexpat.com/defaults/books.php?nls=en&requrl=books_en#0021
http://www.soilandhealth.org/03sov/0303critic/030332.bernays.propaganda.pdf

problem-> reaction->solution

Silver Bullet · Apr 26, 2007

The press is highly critical of the present federal admin, and rightly so.

That's because the press is part of the liberalMedia. When the Democrats are in charge and things aren't going well, they blame the military or the police rather than the President and Congress.

Another definition of fascism is a government that allows private ownership of business and property, but controls how that ownership operates their property. A modern parallel to that definition in America is Environmental whackos who get laws passed prescribing what property owners can and cannot do with their own property.

Slugthrower · Apr 26, 2007

How about just 5. The rest will follow when you have useful idiots to do your bidding.

1 Control the education of children.
2 Control the media for communication and propaganda.
3 Eliminate the concept of the individual.
4 Create a secret police force.
5 Create a secret court system.

Yes, we are on the path to socialist/fascist state.

Don't forget that Nazi is just short for National Socialist Party.

1-3 seem to be a Democrats favored method.
4 and 5 Seem to be a Republican inspired idea for our safety and security.

Both parties care little for the people, it seems they care more about their own personal and political empowerment over the "lesser" Americans.

death2twinkys · Apr 26, 2007

Everyone needs to chill. Some of you are responding with inane opinions or just out right insults, stop its not helpful. Also you cant be charged with a felony by saying my neighbors house got searched on a website, because no one here knows who you are or where you are so all you are doing is dodging the question. Quit whining and do something about it. I am going to work grow up and stop acting like children thats all I have to say. (and yes I know I insulted some of you by saying you were acting like children, I don't care)

How to create a Fascist State in 10 easy steps

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