My typical shooting is a 6 inch circle at 6 - 7 yards, double taps / quick.
I like to aim on hit on.
How "on target" are your fixed sight handguns?
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My typical shooting is a 6 inch circle at 6 - 7 yards, double taps / quick.
I like to aim on hit on.
I've had pretty good luck with fixed sighted handguns with maybe an exception or two in a few dozen guns.
Had one that shot about a foot low at 10 yards--turned out that was a known issue with the sights on that particular model and I had to correct it with different sights.
As far as elevation goes, there are a few things that confuse people:
1. Flinching often manifests as an elevation point of impact error. It will usually put shots low on the target. If a gun is "shooting low", then the next step is to assess group size. If the group size at 10 yards, shooting carefully, is larger than 3" and the person shooting has good vision and no physical disabilities (e.g. tremor, very low hand strength, etc.) then the issue is likely a flinch and not a problem with the sights. It's a rare handgun/ammo combination that is incapable of shooting groups that are about an inch in size at ranges of 10yrds or less.
2. Of necessity, the elevation point of impact MUST change with range if the gun is to put the bullets at or above the top of the front sight at any range.
The bullet starts out below the top of the front sight (obviously) and if the gun is sighted to put the bullet at the top of the front sight at 15 yards, then at every range UNDER 15 yards, the bullet will hit below the top of the front sight. Then, beyond 15 yards, the bullet will continue to rise until gravity takes over and pulls it back down.
Here's a plot from a post I made on the topic some time ago. Note that at different points downrange, the pistol appears to be sighted to put the bullet below the front sight, then behind the front sight, then on top of the front sight, then well above the front sight. So which sight picture is it actually set up for? Depends on what range it was set up for.
https://thefiringline.com/forums/showthread.php?t=503476
Had one that shot about a foot low at 10 yards--turned out that was a known issue with the sights on that particular model and I had to correct it with different sights.
As far as elevation goes, there are a few things that confuse people:
1. Flinching often manifests as an elevation point of impact error. It will usually put shots low on the target. If a gun is "shooting low", then the next step is to assess group size. If the group size at 10 yards, shooting carefully, is larger than 3" and the person shooting has good vision and no physical disabilities (e.g. tremor, very low hand strength, etc.) then the issue is likely a flinch and not a problem with the sights. It's a rare handgun/ammo combination that is incapable of shooting groups that are about an inch in size at ranges of 10yrds or less.
2. Of necessity, the elevation point of impact MUST change with range if the gun is to put the bullets at or above the top of the front sight at any range.
The bullet starts out below the top of the front sight (obviously) and if the gun is sighted to put the bullet at the top of the front sight at 15 yards, then at every range UNDER 15 yards, the bullet will hit below the top of the front sight. Then, beyond 15 yards, the bullet will continue to rise until gravity takes over and pulls it back down.
Here's a plot from a post I made on the topic some time ago. Note that at different points downrange, the pistol appears to be sighted to put the bullet below the front sight, then behind the front sight, then on top of the front sight, then well above the front sight. So which sight picture is it actually set up for? Depends on what range it was set up for.
https://thefiringline.com/forums/showthread.php?t=503476
Dead-Nuts-Zero
New member
S&W M-60 .38 Spec. 2" shoots right on at 15 yds. It's small narrow fixed sight allows me shoot at 50 yds with very little sight rise using 38 +P factory ammo.
My S&W M-64 .38 Spec. 4" shoots slightly high around 15 yds & good out to 50 yds with 38+P factory ammo.
As for windage, both are right on.
My S&W M-64 .38 Spec. 4" shoots slightly high around 15 yds & good out to 50 yds with 38+P factory ammo.
As for windage, both are right on.
How "on target" are your fixed sight handguns?
Most of my fixed sights pistols shoot at point of aim or a tad below (6 o’clock aim) at 25 meters. A few needed the rear sight to be drifted
The Swiss service pistols (Luger, P210, P220) are very accurate even with fixed sights
My lone snubby revolver (Colt Lawman Mk III) shoots high
Most of my fixed sights pistols shoot at point of aim or a tad below (6 o’clock aim) at 25 meters. A few needed the rear sight to be drifted
The Swiss service pistols (Luger, P210, P220) are very accurate even with fixed sights
My lone snubby revolver (Colt Lawman Mk III) shoots high
bamaranger
New member
sights
Pondering same, I realize that most of my handguns came with adjustable sights, or I installed same. But, from memory, here's what my fixies do:
*Ruger MkII std .22 shoots EXACTLY to point of aim at 15-20 yds with Rem
Golden bullets. What a dandy pistol it has been.
*G20/10mm shot low when I got it, changed rear sight blade, now shoots
180's a bit high. I should have tried 200's with the original rear sight. A
165 might shoot to point of aim, but I'm done fooling with it.
*Ruger Bearcat shoots a wee bit left. As I rarely shoot it farther than what I
can toss a Coke can, I live with it.
Pondering same, I realize that most of my handguns came with adjustable sights, or I installed same. But, from memory, here's what my fixies do:
*Ruger MkII std .22 shoots EXACTLY to point of aim at 15-20 yds with Rem
Golden bullets. What a dandy pistol it has been.
*G20/10mm shot low when I got it, changed rear sight blade, now shoots
180's a bit high. I should have tried 200's with the original rear sight. A
165 might shoot to point of aim, but I'm done fooling with it.
*Ruger Bearcat shoots a wee bit left. As I rarely shoot it farther than what I
can toss a Coke can, I live with it.
By fixed, do you mean drift adjustable / dovetail? Or do you mean sights that are milled into the slide? I don't have many of those, just a NAA mini that the front blade is terribly off. But if it were to hit point of aim, it would have to be about an inch higher so forget about that. I do have a semi-auto that I had to drift the sights a little to make it hit POA. None of my other ones needed that: if front and rear sights were in the middle of the dovetail, they were good to 15 yards.
I guess I have been lucky;
My old Police trade in fixed sight model 10 S&W .38 is dead on with 158 or 148 .38's.
My Colt .45 SAA is dead on with 250 / 255 lead.
My Uberti Stallion .22 SAA is dead on.
My Uberti SAA .45 is dead on with 250 / 255 lead.
Ruger .22 auto... also dead on at 25 yards.
I had a Colt 1991-A1 years ago that shot to the right about 6 inches, but with a hammer I easily drifted the rear sight over enough to center my groups. Not a true fixed sight though.
"Dead on", by my definition, is shooting a tin can repeatedly at 25 yards. "Minute of rabbit" in my book. Works for me.
I prefer fixed sights on a handgun I use either CCW or as a trail gun. I'm not target practicing or playing show and tell at the local gun range, but carrying daily. Plinking, small game, etc. Sure, an adjustable sight would be nice and some of my guns feature them, but at handgun range, I'm comfortable with fixed sighted weapons. In the woods, if there is a slippery spot (moss, wet leaves or mud), I'll find it and fixed sights are one less thing I can break when I land.
My old Police trade in fixed sight model 10 S&W .38 is dead on with 158 or 148 .38's.
My Colt .45 SAA is dead on with 250 / 255 lead.
My Uberti Stallion .22 SAA is dead on.
My Uberti SAA .45 is dead on with 250 / 255 lead.
Ruger .22 auto... also dead on at 25 yards.
I had a Colt 1991-A1 years ago that shot to the right about 6 inches, but with a hammer I easily drifted the rear sight over enough to center my groups. Not a true fixed sight though.
"Dead on", by my definition, is shooting a tin can repeatedly at 25 yards. "Minute of rabbit" in my book. Works for me.
I prefer fixed sights on a handgun I use either CCW or as a trail gun. I'm not target practicing or playing show and tell at the local gun range, but carrying daily. Plinking, small game, etc. Sure, an adjustable sight would be nice and some of my guns feature them, but at handgun range, I'm comfortable with fixed sighted weapons. In the woods, if there is a slippery spot (moss, wet leaves or mud), I'll find it and fixed sights are one less thing I can break when I land.
It's fun to have an accurate pistol that hits exactly where it's aimed but keep in mind neither one matters in most self defense situations because they happen inside 10', learn how to point your gun and shoot quickly.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MBbAABiot5s
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MBbAABiot5s
Its not just fun, For me, its a requirement. I also can't see where a pistol that is accurate and hits exactly where it's aimed is any kind of a drawback, at 10' or at 100yds. I also don't see how a pistol that isn't accurate and doesn't hit exactly where it is aimed is any benefit at 10 feet or any other range. In fact, I consider it a drawback.
While it is important, there's a lot more to handgunning than defensive pistol shooting, and if you focus only on that, you're missing out on a lot.
I’ve done a two day reflexive shooting course based on the teachings by Bob Taubert. It was a good course. The final lesson of that course was a walk back drill, starting at 3 yd and going back to say 10 yd. By the time most of us got to 7 yd we would benefit from using sights, some managed to push that to 10 yd. This was after not doing anything but reflexive shooting for two days of 8 hr each.
Statistically speaking the great majority of us will never have to use a firearm to defend ourselves. While it certainly is true that many shootings are close in, not all are. If you find yourself in the latter you want sights that are POA=POI. More so having sights that are “on” does nothing to stop you from shooting reflexively. It simply gives you more versatility.
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Generalization's, I'm going to make a few, I know it doesn't apply to target shooters or LE.
I've practically lived at shooting ranges for 40 years, here's my take on the situation.
Almost everyone that buys a handgun will never and has no desire to shoot in a match of any kind.
Nearly everyone of them starts out shooting paper targets at close range with two hands slow fire, 99% of them never vary from that the second time they practice up to and beyond the 100th time.
They all think they're prepared to defend themselves against an armed attacker.
Luckily almost none of them will be in a firefight with an armed assailant because they'll probably be killed by them.
I've practically lived at shooting ranges for 40 years, here's my take on the situation.
Almost everyone that buys a handgun will never and has no desire to shoot in a match of any kind.
Nearly everyone of them starts out shooting paper targets at close range with two hands slow fire, 99% of them never vary from that the second time they practice up to and beyond the 100th time.
They all think they're prepared to defend themselves against an armed attacker.
Luckily almost none of them will be in a firefight with an armed assailant because they'll probably be killed by them.
I agree... I hunt with handguns, compete in bowling pin competitions, compete in rimfire silhouette competitions, and just love to go out and shoot at moving targets at the local range.