How "on target" are your fixed sight handguns?
- Thread starter idek
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Shotgun Slim
New member
Not well generally. Left or right can be fixed by drifting the sights on the guns I have. Only my XDs is perfect for me stock,everything else (which is several) has been fixed by Dawson Precision sights.Dave's sights are amazing for the good sight picture they afford and they come in different heights to cure elevation problems. I just can't tolerate a gun that has to be accomodated sightwise.
Revolvers shoot left for me...Rugers (over a dozen through the years), about 2-3" at 25 yds. These I've corrected by CAREFULLY filing the rear sight notch. 2" at 25 yds is about the limit for correction with this method. All shot high as well. I want my guns to impact at the tip of the front sight at 25 yds with my loads. I fine tune the most accurate, usable load then correct the sights to achieve that impact point.
Autos have generally been close...Sigs, 1911's [Ruger, Colt, Sig, Remington-Rand], and a lone Bersa & a cpl of S&W's. By close, I mean 2" or less at 15 yds from a Weaver Stance. All were easily, more or less, adjustable by drifting the rear sight. All were ok with elevation, generally high by a cpl inches, except the Sigs which the company insists on installing with a "Combat" sight picture [Read: cover the target with the front sight dot cause the bullet's going to impact at the center of the dot]. I've learned to accept this...don't like it...but it works and there's no alternative except replacing the front sight which is all but welded in its dovetail on the half dozen Sigs I've worked on.
Adjustable sights belong on any handgun...and no...they are not any more fragile than fixed sights. You're just as likely to knock the front sight blade off a fixed sighted gun as you are breaking the rear and/or front sights on an adjustable sighted one. The answer is obviously, "Don't drop your guns!" Either type is just as likely to break.
YMMv Rod
Autos have generally been close...Sigs, 1911's [Ruger, Colt, Sig, Remington-Rand], and a lone Bersa & a cpl of S&W's. By close, I mean 2" or less at 15 yds from a Weaver Stance. All were easily, more or less, adjustable by drifting the rear sight. All were ok with elevation, generally high by a cpl inches, except the Sigs which the company insists on installing with a "Combat" sight picture [Read: cover the target with the front sight dot cause the bullet's going to impact at the center of the dot]. I've learned to accept this...don't like it...but it works and there's no alternative except replacing the front sight which is all but welded in its dovetail on the half dozen Sigs I've worked on.
Adjustable sights belong on any handgun...and no...they are not any more fragile than fixed sights. You're just as likely to knock the front sight blade off a fixed sighted gun as you are breaking the rear and/or front sights on an adjustable sighted one. The answer is obviously, "Don't drop your guns!" Either type is just as likely to break.
YMMv Rod
TruthTellers
New member
For semi autos they shoot pretty well to POA, but all my fixed sight semi autos are little micro pistols meant for carrying, so I don't shoot them further than 10 yards.
Revolvers is a different story, the two DA's I have w/ fixed sights are the RIA M206 and the Charter Professional. The M206 is shoots to POA with 158 grain, the 125's or lighter it doesn't and the Charter Professional everyone knows it shoots low. Even with the proper sight picture the Professional still shoots a bit below POA.
The worse by far is the single action revolvers, they all shoot way high and usually to the left or the right and I've decided that I'll never buy another single action revolver that's not a percussion one with fixed sights again. I'm tired of it.
Revolvers is a different story, the two DA's I have w/ fixed sights are the RIA M206 and the Charter Professional. The M206 is shoots to POA with 158 grain, the 125's or lighter it doesn't and the Charter Professional everyone knows it shoots low. Even with the proper sight picture the Professional still shoots a bit below POA.
The worse by far is the single action revolvers, they all shoot way high and usually to the left or the right and I've decided that I'll never buy another single action revolver that's not a percussion one with fixed sights again. I'm tired of it.
I've had a couple of guns that needed the rear sight drifted, one that was zeroed by removing material from the front sight, and another that required a taller rear sight, as the front was too short to remove any.
I prefer impact to be right on top of the front sight, don't do any shooting that requires a pin-point zero, and will accept POI an inch above POA at 25 yards, but it has to be "on" for windage at that distance.
The worst offender was a revolver that shot a foot low, and six inches right, at 25 yards; had to remove about 25% off the front sight, and shave one side, to get it zeroed.
I prefer impact to be right on top of the front sight, don't do any shooting that requires a pin-point zero, and will accept POI an inch above POA at 25 yards, but it has to be "on" for windage at that distance.
The worst offender was a revolver that shot a foot low, and six inches right, at 25 yards; had to remove about 25% off the front sight, and shave one side, to get it zeroed.
toxophilus
New member
My Sig P220 & Colt Commander shoot pretty much on point with a variety of factory loads; I do reload so I'm able to develop my practice loads to my ordinance.
Below is a 15yard group using factory Winchester Personal Protection SXZ45 230GR JHP...
My older Sigs came with test targets shot at 15 meters, their test target measures 6 1/4" across.
I use sight picture # 2 as CDW4ME has posted down below...
Below is a 15yard group using factory Winchester Personal Protection SXZ45 230GR JHP...
My older Sigs came with test targets shot at 15 meters, their test target measures 6 1/4" across.
I use sight picture # 2 as CDW4ME has posted down below...
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I shot an armadillo a while back after shooting over it a couple shots. I put the pistol on paper at 25 yards and it was shooting 3.5 Inches high. I used the Dawson Sight Height Calculator and came up with a .240 front sight height to correct the sights on my G37.3.
I shot an as new G37.4 that I had just purchased at the same range visit. It was even worse shooting 5.5 Inches high at 25 yards. When plugged into the Dawson Calculator it needed the same .240 front sight as the first one. I have not ordered sights for the second one yet. I am going to install a new Warren Tactical rear sight and re-shoot it first.
Bob R
I shot an as new G37.4 that I had just purchased at the same range visit. It was even worse shooting 5.5 Inches high at 25 yards. When plugged into the Dawson Calculator it needed the same .240 front sight as the first one. I have not ordered sights for the second one yet. I am going to install a new Warren Tactical rear sight and re-shoot it first.
Bob R
Everything is dependent on the gun itself, the load being shot, the way the shooter looks through the sights and the distance you feel the gun should hit point of aim.
Not sure what companies are doing today, but for many years fixed sight pistols were factory set for the most common bullet weight (and velocity) and for 25 yards. Not 10 or 7yds.
So if you're shooting the usual bullet weight & speed at other than 25yds you might find the sights a bit off.
Knowing if your gun is sighted for a center hold, or 6 o'clock hold makes a difference too.
And sometimes things are way off from what you expect, for one thing but spot on for another. Had a chance to shoot a friend's SAA clone in .357 some years back. Something Italian made, I no longer remember the brand, but I do remember the uncommon difference in point of impact with that gun with different loads. 158gr .38 Spl at approx 850fps was spot on at about 20yds. Every .357 load we tried (125s and 158s) were all low and left by 2 FEET! 3 different shooters, all had the same results, pretty sure it was the gun...
Not sure what companies are doing today, but for many years fixed sight pistols were factory set for the most common bullet weight (and velocity) and for 25 yards. Not 10 or 7yds.
So if you're shooting the usual bullet weight & speed at other than 25yds you might find the sights a bit off.
Knowing if your gun is sighted for a center hold, or 6 o'clock hold makes a difference too.
And sometimes things are way off from what you expect, for one thing but spot on for another. Had a chance to shoot a friend's SAA clone in .357 some years back. Something Italian made, I no longer remember the brand, but I do remember the uncommon difference in point of impact with that gun with different loads. 158gr .38 Spl at approx 850fps was spot on at about 20yds. Every .357 load we tried (125s and 158s) were all low and left by 2 FEET! 3 different shooters, all had the same results, pretty sure it was the gun...
The plastic (Polymer) sights, on any and all of my Glocks, shot to point of aim, of course, they were useless in poor light. No matter which make or model, if placed in the centre of the slide, shot to the left. When moved a little to the right, trial and error, fixed.
My latest Glock purchase, the Glock 43X when they first came on the market. With requested steel night sights? Red ring around the front green dot shot straight to point of aim at 7 yards. Right out of the box. Had a Nickel plated, seems to be slide. My Son waited till they came out in black slide version. Me, I like the slide I have.
I believe this particular sight is manufactured for Glock. At 85 years of age, after Lazer surgery, I have 20/20 vision. The sights are clear as a bell.
My latest Glock purchase, the Glock 43X when they first came on the market. With requested steel night sights? Red ring around the front green dot shot straight to point of aim at 7 yards. Right out of the box. Had a Nickel plated, seems to be slide. My Son waited till they came out in black slide version. Me, I like the slide I have.
I believe this particular sight is manufactured for Glock. At 85 years of age, after Lazer surgery, I have 20/20 vision. The sights are clear as a bell.
Re image 1: What's the distance? What's the diameter of the bull? There's no way a gun can be manufactured for a 6:00 hold, as it works at only a known distance, with a target of known size, and a given load.
Any maker who says their gun is sighted for 6:00, is just saying it shoots high, and how much is for you to discover.
Any maker who says their gun is sighted for 6:00, is just saying it shoots high, and how much is for you to discover.
The 6 o"clock hold is correct. If you ever try to shoot a small target with the center or under center your sight covers the target. Can't hit what you can't see. Last new gun I bought shot 4" low at 10 yards. It's back at S&W right now. A pistol should at least shoot to the top of the front sight at 25 Yards. 2" above at 25 is even better.