How many 9mm Lugers are there???

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eflyguy

New member
44 AMP said:
SO, how many 9mm Luger guns, by design are there? And where do we set our parameters for what should and should not be counted as one??
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In my case, I would expect more specificity when the question comes from someone who knows anything about firearms. (Not criticizing you, you asked for our reasons.) In the case of the reporting you mentioned, there was no specificity, either due to ignorance, or poor reporting skills.

So my response to the question would be "do you mean models of the historic Lugar pistol, or firearms that can shoot the 9x19 cartridge?"

I would not assume either.
 
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44 AMP

Staff
So my response to the question would be "do you mean models of the historic Lugar pistol, or firearms that can shoot the 9x19 cartridge?"
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What I am looking for is a rough count of how many different designs of handguns there are that were made or remade to shoot the 9mm Luger/9mm Parabellum/9x19 (or whatever is your preferred name for that cartridge).

And what I asked was also for what/where people considered enough of a difference in design to be in its own category.

I consider a 4" (Army) P.08, a Navy (6") and the Artillery Luger (8") to be one design. I consider the P.08 and the Swiss pattern Lugers to be one design for the purposes of my count.

I consider the same design produced by different manufactures to be one design. A P.38 made by Walther and one made by Spreewerke are the same one design in my count. Browning Hi-powers, made by FN or made in Canada, Argentina, or Hungary, I put them all in the same one design group.

I also put "compact" models in the same design group. A Colt Govt Model in 9mm and a Commander in 9mm, same one group. A Glock 17, and a 19, same group.

I also include upgrades and refinements of the same basic design in the same group. A GLock original and a Gen 4 are in the same one basic group, to me.

I will allow a double stack its one class even when it is an obvious development of a single stack design. To me that is enough of a difference to warrant its own listing. S&W 39 and 59 are an example of those, to me.

Obviously, other people are going to have other opinions, which is why I asked for what they consider different enough to count separately, and why.

Some will count only variants of the actual Luger pistol. Some will count every subvariant of a design as separate. Some might agree with my system, and some be somewhere else. So that's why I asked, to get a rough count, and to see where people make their distinctions and if there is a general consensus among the replies, or not.

I put this in Semi Auto handguns, because the majority of 9mms are semis, but I will count revolvers and single shot 9mms as well.

We're up over 30 so far, wonder where its going to end??
(note. not counting carbines or SMGs at this time)
 
B

blchandl2

New member
Arcus 94 - Probably falls under the BHP clone category.
Arcus 98DA/C - More of what I would call a BHP pattern pistol. It is double action and may only be able to share magazines with a BHP
 
J

Jim Watson

New member
Yes, my Vienna PD surplus gun's box has a pocket for the 9mm cylinder. An OILY pocket. But no cylinder.

Some will count only variants of the actual Luger pistol.
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Back when Lugers were being treated like Army surplus 1911s and 1911A1s are now, one wit said "There were over a million Luger pistols made and a collector considers each and every one a separate model."

Can I get out a book? Lots of goodies in Ezell.

Browning/FN GR, much different from GP.
Steyr Hahn, normally 9x23 but 9mm P for Germany.
1912/14 Mauser
Mauser HSv
Walther Modell 6
Walther MP
Walther AP
1950 French
Astra 600

I happen to hold the opinion that the only "real" 1911s are those guns made by Colt for the US military before the adoption of the 1911A1 changes. I also allow those people who make the gun to name it and if they want to mark their gun "1911" that's fine, but its not the same as the GI guns.
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Calling every 1911A1 pattern gun a 1911 is, to me, sloppy shorthand and not correct. I'm a bit odd about such things.
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I was hammering the distinction between a military 1911 or 1911A1 and a commercial Government Model in another thread, but I don't think I was getting through to the rest of the posters. One guy could tell the difference between 1911 and 1911A1 well enough, but he persisted in calling a Government Model from either period by the Army designation.
 
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TailGator

New member
If the Beretta PX4 line was mentioned, I didn't see it. To me, the rotating barrel design separates it from the 92 series.
 
J

Jim Watson

New member
Oh, yes, and include the Grand Power and MAB P15 rotating barrel guns; all somewhat different.
Did somebody say Remington R51? Not a fine gun, but one of a very few using the Pedersen design.
 
G

Gas Bag

New member
There are umpteen millions of 9mm Luger/NATO pistols in America now, it’s the standard round, I guess.

I have had a couple of Taurus models in 9mm myself.
 
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44 AMP

Staff
SO, how many 9mm Luger guns, by design, are there?
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Did you miss this in the original post? Am not looking for how many individual pistols have been made, am looking for how many different designs of pistols have been made in 9mm Luger.
 
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10-96

New member
How did Savage manage to not get on the 9mm wagon between 1905 and 1921? That would have seemed like an obvious move if they were going to market their .32's to places like France
 
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ThomasT

New member
One 9mm design I don't believe has been mentioned is new single shot pistol you have to disassemble to load. The Altor Pistol. Basically a Zip Gun with a handle on it.

https://www.primaryarms.com/altor-corp-9mm-single-shot-pistol

I hope that is different enough to meet the OP's intent of the thread.

Maybe next a thread on all the 9mm Luger rifles and sub guns. I always thought the 9mm made a great short range rifle round. Low recoil and blast and much easier to shoot at longer ranges when chambered in a rifle. I have a Marlin Camp Carbine and Hi-point in 9mm and really like shooting them.
 
R

RickB

New member
How did Savage manage to not get on the 9mm wagon between 1905 and 1921?
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There was no 9mm wagon in the U.S., until the 1970s. What was the first U.S.-made 9mm; Colt Commander?
 
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44 AMP

Staff
How did Savage manage to not get on the 9mm wagon between 1905 and 1921? That would have seemed like an obvious move if they were going to market their .32's to places like France
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And there was no 9mm bandwagon in France, until after WWII. First of all, the 9mm Parabellum was a GERMAN cartridge, and so not popular in France. And they had the opportunity to purchase FN Hi-Powers from 35 on, and refused.

It wasn't until the 9mm became NATO's pistol round that France was got on the "9mm bandwagon" and even then, they tended to drag their feet...
 
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Jim Watson

New member
John Browning started on the French RFP for a 9mm in 1923. They could have had the Browning-Saive in the mid 1920s, Saive had a recognizable BHP in 1928.
But the French got off the bandwagon and a little thing called the Great Depression interfered with progress. So Belgium got the first BHPs, and the French got the small bore SACM and MAC/MAT in 1935.
 
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44 AMP

Staff
Who cares how many different models of 9mm exist. Probably in excess of 1000.
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Am not looking for the number of different models, am looking for a rough count of the different designs.

I don't care about different models and variants of the same basic designs. Differences in sights, barrel lengths, finishes, compact or full size, of the same basic gun count as one design.

If you think its silly, simply don't play. :D
 
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