The question came up during a discussion with a friend the other night, and we quickly realized that this is a much more complex question than it seems.
What got us onto the topic was discussion about "proper" or "correct" cartridge names, and what most people think of when they hear the name. In the distant past, when one said ".45auto" or "9mm Luger" people though of a specific gun, the Colt 1911A1 or the German P08 "Luger".
But today, most people seem to think of the cartridge and not a specific gun. Or, at least people who know a bit about the subject do that.
and one instance of a "journalist" who didn't do that. There had been several shooting and the police said they were all done with the same gun, a 9mm Luger. Cops hadn't caught the guy, didn't have the gun, so I would assume they were going off fired cases...
Next thing you know there was an article about how someone was going around shooting people with an antique WWII German pistol! (9mm Luger)
Use about any search engine for 9mm Luger and very often the first thing that comes up is the P.08 Luger PISTOL. Pretty sure that's what the writer did, and decided that had to be what the cops meant when they said 9mm Luger.
9mm Luger IS a valid cartridge name in the US. Its the 9mm Parabellum or the 9x19mm in the rest of the world and it can be in the US too, but here, it's ALSO the 9mm Luger cartridge.
SO, how many 9mm Luger guns, by design are there? And where do we set our parameters for what should and should not be counted as one??
I think, to keep things simpler, we should consider all variants of the same basic design to be counted as one. No matter who makes it or made it. And I think variations of barrel length and grip frame should also be included in the "one design".
So, I would put all the P08 Lugers in one group, the P.38s in another, GLocks in another, etc. Some makers will have more than one such as Beretta, because they have made two distinctly different designs, (the 1934 and the 92) but I would count the Glock 19 and 17 models as one basic design.
Likewise, I would count the same basic design made by different manufacturers as one. Clones go in the basic design group. For example, an FN Hi Power and a Hungarian made clone are the same basic design
That's where I would set my parameters before trying to count how many "9mm Lugers" there are, but I'm asking here, to , "take the tenor of the clans" and see what you all think about what should and shouldn't be counted separately.
Once we establish that, THEN we'll start counting, and see what kind of results we get.
All responses are welcome, please state your reasons, I'm curious about what people think. And how many we eventually come up with.
Current or past production, if its available on the market (including collector pieces) I include it.
Thanks.
What got us onto the topic was discussion about "proper" or "correct" cartridge names, and what most people think of when they hear the name. In the distant past, when one said ".45auto" or "9mm Luger" people though of a specific gun, the Colt 1911A1 or the German P08 "Luger".
But today, most people seem to think of the cartridge and not a specific gun. Or, at least people who know a bit about the subject do that.
and one instance of a "journalist" who didn't do that. There had been several shooting and the police said they were all done with the same gun, a 9mm Luger. Cops hadn't caught the guy, didn't have the gun, so I would assume they were going off fired cases...
Next thing you know there was an article about how someone was going around shooting people with an antique WWII German pistol! (9mm Luger)
Use about any search engine for 9mm Luger and very often the first thing that comes up is the P.08 Luger PISTOL. Pretty sure that's what the writer did, and decided that had to be what the cops meant when they said 9mm Luger.
9mm Luger IS a valid cartridge name in the US. Its the 9mm Parabellum or the 9x19mm in the rest of the world and it can be in the US too, but here, it's ALSO the 9mm Luger cartridge.
SO, how many 9mm Luger guns, by design are there? And where do we set our parameters for what should and should not be counted as one??
I think, to keep things simpler, we should consider all variants of the same basic design to be counted as one. No matter who makes it or made it. And I think variations of barrel length and grip frame should also be included in the "one design".
So, I would put all the P08 Lugers in one group, the P.38s in another, GLocks in another, etc. Some makers will have more than one such as Beretta, because they have made two distinctly different designs, (the 1934 and the 92) but I would count the Glock 19 and 17 models as one basic design.
Likewise, I would count the same basic design made by different manufacturers as one. Clones go in the basic design group. For example, an FN Hi Power and a Hungarian made clone are the same basic design
That's where I would set my parameters before trying to count how many "9mm Lugers" there are, but I'm asking here, to , "take the tenor of the clans" and see what you all think about what should and shouldn't be counted separately.
Once we establish that, THEN we'll start counting, and see what kind of results we get.
All responses are welcome, please state your reasons, I'm curious about what people think. And how many we eventually come up with.
Current or past production, if its available on the market (including collector pieces) I include it.
Thanks.
