How Long Should A Reload Take?

[DrLaw]

Seven years as a police officer, drew my gun on people three times, never had to shoot.

Even in big cities, you will find this to be a common experience.

Way back when I had a briefcase with a box of shells in my car, plus a twin pouch on my gun belt holding 6 shots which were on Bianchi speed strips, and I never felt out-gunned or out ammo'd.

The Doc is out now.

 

[jglsprings]

That to which we all aspire...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Mg9kmj6c650

 

[gyvel]

I'm thinking that in a stress situation, with adrenalin flowing, it's going to take you a lot longer than 4-5 seconds.

 

[Single Six]

Gyvel: I'm thinking that you're probably right. I've heard it said that you can expect your gun handling and general marksmanship skills to take a 50% cut under high stress. Now, I don't know if that figure is necessarily true, or if it is, that it's the same for everyone. I do know, however, that adrenaline-charged moments can wreak havoc on one's dexterity and fine motor skills. So it seems to me that you can't practice too much, whether we're talking about drawing, firing, or reloading. I'd say it behooves us all to give ourselves every possible chance to NOT screw it up under pressure and follow the old advice: "Repetition is the mother of skill".

 

[Wag]

This may seem a bit out of place but it refers to the motor skills side of the equation.

I'm a concert level classical pianist. For some reason, when I get on stage, I get a hit of adrenaline just as I'm sitting down to perform. It absolutely wrecks my ability to play. My hands shake. My vision narrows. My hearing closes down so I have no idea what is going on in the audience. My lower back muscles start to spasm uncontrollably. I tend to have to focus on slowing down so that I don't rush through the piece too quickly like some kind of rube. It doesn't matter how much I've performed, this still hits me every time.

But I can still play and I play to my expectations, regardless. The reason?

Practice.

Any piece I play in public is something I've practiced no less than 10,000 times, mostly likely many many more times than that. Yes, it's a period of practice that often requires a period of years to get just right. And even then, I'm always convinced it can be a bit better and off I go to practice it another 1,000 times.

Believe me when I say, without that level of practice, the fine motor skills which get vaporized in front of an audience would be far too low to make a good showing. 50% reduction sounds about right. But repetitive practice makes all the difference in the world.

I hear sports trainers say the same thing. Martial artists practice the same strikes, kicks, holds, tumbles, etc. over and over and over. Basketball players practice free throws over and over. A college wrestling coach who had won his state championship in prior years said that he never performed a move on the mat until he had practiced it a thousand times. Motorcyclists who practice their riding techniques repeatedly are much safer on the road and faster on the track.

And the list goes on and on.

For all of these activities, the common thread I've picked up over the years, and this applies equally to firearms usage, is that you practice slowly and smoothly. Repeat your motion slowly, being absolutely sure it is correct in every detail, then repeat it again slightly faster. Then slowly a couple more times, then slightly faster. You'll be surprise at how soon your times will start to drop.

A the moment, I'm working on drawing from holster. My intent is to be smooth and right. Not fast, necessarily. However, I can already tell after a short time, that my draw is faster and more sure. I'm no quick draw artist and that's not my intent at this point. I just want to be sure I'm able to draw the pistol and get it on target in a smooth, controlled way. It's working so far.

I'm not up to 1,000 repetitions yet but I'm getting there!

It may have seemed a bit off topic, in a way, but I thought it might be at least partially applicable.

--Wag--

 

[Single Six]

Wag: To quote a line from that wonderfully politically incorrect flick "Blazing Saddles": "Now who can argue with that?"

 

[Wag]

That's funny right there, I don't care WHO ya are!

I wasn't going to post all of that but it seemed at least partly relevant. Hope it was somewhat useful!

Absolutely love that movie, btw!

--Wag--

 

[Single Six]

Wag: Your post was indeed useful, and spot-on too, I'd say. I guess all we can do in such endeavors as these is practice until it becomes automatic..and then keep practicing regularly. As for "Blazing Saddles", glad you enjoyed the reference. Here in the south, it's required viewing, right up there with "Smokey And The Bandit"!

 

[Wag]

Hey! Another all time classic! And yes, required viewing. LOL

When you practice, you're working on building what is called muscle memory. Whenever I take on a new hobby/sport, I hear this term to the point where it's, "Yeah, yeah, get on with it!"

However, another term I hear, which I like better, is "automaticity." That's when your muscle memory and nervous system work together to the point when you're not even conscious of what is going on while you function.

Here's a test, though. When you wake yourself up 'cause you're practicing in your sleep, you know you're making a crapload of progress!



--Wag--

 

[BigJimP]

I'm not a LE Officer - and certainly no Jerry Miculek either ... but I've tried a bunch of loaders....

and I settled on the Jet .... after I tried the HKS, the QuickStrips, the Safariland II's and III's ......and the Jet reloaders seemed to come into place faster and released more consistently and more cleanly ...

The way I time my reload --- is my last shot ....eject rounds - reload - and fire one round on target. When I practice it a lot - 4.0 to 4.25 is just fine. I can occassionally get it under 4.0 ...but it takes a lot of work. ( if I can't hit the A zone on an IPSC target - with the first 6 and the followup round - then I don't count it ......)...

One of the keys for me - is to limit my arm movement up and down as much as possible / so keeping the gun on "the firing plane" if that makes sense / roll it to the left, with muzzle up, eject the rounds ( hold it like Jim suggested -indexing the cyclinder with a finger ) -- reach down with strong hand, grab reloader - and go up with it ( drop reloader ) close the gun -- ( rotate it back on target ) and Fire ....

The more I have to bring the gun down - it hurts my time - vs bringing it toward me and keeping it closer to the firing plane .... and that's where you gain or lose at least 0.5 sec ...

but someday's its just a comedy routine .... can't get the loader out of the pouch ( and the stiffer a pouch is the better - so they don't collapse ) / lose the index on the cyclinder ...etc ....

But play around with your grip / and how to get that first shot off too --- with the idea of snapping the gun closed and rotating it instantly on target at eye level ( with sights on target - and squeeze it off ).

I'm not talking about "race guns" - I'm doing this like you are -- with "standard guns" - in my case all S&W 4" or 6" K, L or N frames ...( model 19's, 66's, 27's, 686's ... I think its fun to push yourself ... but I will also say the type of stocks or grips on the guns make a difference too --- on some of my guns I have the older S&W finger groove walnut grips - some of them with target stocks - some smooth and some checkered ---and for me, the finger groove walnut stocks are the best ( and I tried some of the Hogue rubber grips too ) - and they work / but make the guns too ugly ...

 

[MrBorland]

My 2 "secrets" to faster reloads:

1. Your hands should be doing something simultaneously, not sequentially: Neither hand should be idle. Here are 2 examples:

First, opening the cylinder and holding the gun in your weak hand, and using your strong hand to whack the ejector is wasting time- your weak hand's doing absolutely nothing, while your strong hand is busy doing 2 things (ejecting, then going for the speedloader). Save time by using your weak thumb to eject the rounds while simultaneously using your strong hand to get the speedloader.

Second, after fresh rounds are inserted, "pinch closing" the cylinder, then raising the gun is wasting time. Do the 2 movements together. As your weak hand starts to re-establishing its grip, push & click the cylinder closed with the butt of your weak thumb as you're raising the gun. When done well, it looks and sounds like you got your shot off the instant the cylinder closed.

2. Move!!! The tough parts of reloads (lining up the holes/rounds, and getting an accurate follow-up shot off) are...well...tough. It's ok to be careful and go a bit slower here to insure a good reload, but that doesn't mean all your movements need to be slow. Get those empties out - fast! (not so fast you drop the gun, though) Get your hand to the speedloader fast! Pull it out - fast! Get the gun in position to accept the fresh rounds - fast! Get the idea? Break the reload into steps, and practice going fast each step. Use a par timer if it helps, setting the par time a wee bit faster over time. See how fast you can do each step. When I was practicing with my timer, I could eject the empties and have my hand on the speedloader in 0.5 seconds. Another 0.5 seconds, and the gun & speedloader were meeting at my belt line. The final reload may not be the mathematical sum of the steps (probably won't), but your reloads will be overall faster & smoother nonetheless.

 

[Single Six]

BigJimP: Glad to hear from you on this. I'll have to give those Jet speed loaders a whirl. Where did you get yours? Mr. Borland: Once again, sound advice from you as well. Thanks again to all who have [or will] posted.

 

[engineer88]

I gotta tell ya I was very excited to read these posts.

Such a great subject and something you don't see often enough on forums nowadays. I gotta tell you smart fellas that had such great posts thank you. There have been some great tips and thought processes, many of which apply to autoloaders as well.

I carry speed strips personally because they are so easy (nice and flat). Some years back after hours of practicing, I realized that putting only four in a six round speed strip and then only loading four (all five of my revolvers are five holers) was significantly faster. Not just because when you are breaking off two at a time you are only doing it twice, but because it also made it significantly easier to manipulate the strip.

Well like anything else I thought I had an original idea but when I went out and searched it quite a few before me have been doing it this way. Go figure. Nonetheless for five shooters it ain't a bad way to go if the short one bullet thing doesn't bother you too terribly much.

I just thougyt I would put my two cents in for fellow speed strippers.

 

[HighValleyRanch]

engineer88

I use speed strips for fast reloading in my single action.
I load five in the six hole strip, and that allows a place for the finger.

Eject all empties first, then load.
I load the three side first, first two, flip around load the other two and then load the remaining one. I found that this is the smoothest and fastest for loading because of the loading gate.
The trick is to have the gun pointing down, and break them off half way in and let gravity drop them the rest of the way in. You have to have the right angle to avoid the gate. I cut the usual tab off the strips, because that only got in my way.

From last round to next shot, the fastest has been twelve seconds, but the usual is around 14 seconds. Not as fast as a speed loader, but still not out of the ball park.

 

[Eagle0711]

Speed Strips And The Top Off

Speed strips adds an element; the topping off after firing a couple of shots.

Point the revolver down, open the cylinder, push the ejector rod about half the lenghth of the case, then let back out, the fired cases should be sticking out, pluck them out, and with your speed strip snap in the cartriges, and close the cyl. and your'e in business.

The Big Boys call this a partial tactical reload. Not a bad skill to have in your bag of tricks.