I have some extra .44 Special brass, and I was wanting to load up some general purpose loads with 240gr XTP bullets. My question is, how fast can you get a 240gr out of a .44 Special case? I know Elmer Keith loaded some pretty hot stuff back in his day, but I can't remember what his load was. I am looking to get around 1200-1250 fps out of a 6" 629, and I want to use it as a close range deer load and all-around target load out to about 50 yards. Any recommendations, or should I just stick to .44 Mag loads?
Hot .44 Special loads???
- Thread starter Jason280
- Start date
In today's atmosphere of rampant litigation I doubt if anybody would be reckless enough to print a load such as that for which you have inquired.
Use Magnum cases and load to accepted and publiched specs.
The days of individually responsible hot rodders seem to be long gone.
Enjoy.
Sam
Use Magnum cases and load to accepted and publiched specs.
The days of individually responsible hot rodders seem to be long gone.
Enjoy.
Sam
Johnny Guest
Moderator in Memoriam
GO BACK!! IT'S A TRAP!
Jason280 - - This way lies madness.
Truly hot loading in .44 Special is a thing of the past. Indeed, the Esteemed Elmer did a lot of pioneering work with the .44 Special, leading directly to the advent of the .44 magnum. He also worked right up over the edge, with little access to chronography or pressure testing gear. Also, back then, folks were realistic about risk taking--If you took a risk and ruined a gun, or hurt yourself, ''twas on one's own head. Nowadays, people file law suits at the drop of a hat.
Also, in E. Keith's day, there WERE no small-to-medium frame .44 Specials (of which I am aware.
) The .44 Spls back then were all Colt New Service or SAA, or S&W .45-size (later N-Frames) types. And, careful reading of the contemporarily-published articles show numerous instances of damaged guns. Today, we have the Charter Arms Bulldog and the L-frame Smiths and some Rossis and Taurii, none of which take well to super heavy loads.
I don not doubt you can get away with a lot of hot loads, being as you have a .44 Magnum. My main worry is the same as when one puts .357 mag loads into .38 Spl cases--If one of the hot .44 Spl loads strays into a Charter, - - - Well, the image isn't pretty.
CAUTION: The hand load below includes information which exceeds currently-published MAXIMUM LOADS. It is provided for reference only. USE AT YOUR OWN RISK! Neither TFL ownership nor staff assume any liability for damage or injury to persons or gear resulting from use of this information.
All that said, I'll share my favorite .44 Special load--
A good LSWC, 240 to 255 gr., with 7.5 Unique. Depending on barrel length and other variables, it pushes 1000 fps. I use mainly R-P cases and Win LP primers. This is an accurate load and will kill any white tail deer in Texas, stipulating good placement. Considering that the factory 246 RNL seldom reaches 700 fps in a revolver, the above load is a big improvement. I'll shoot 'em all day, in MY guns. I've shot thousands of 'em in several Colts and Smiths. It is NOT pleasant to shoot in the Charter Bulldog, and is about all I care to handle in the L-Frame S&W. I have a couple of old manuals which include this load, but it is NOT currently listed.
Re: The 240 XTP bullet--A fine product, but expansion below 900 fps is said to be slight. If you have a source of commercially cast LSWC bullets, you may find them just as satisfactory, and a great deal lower priced.
NOTE: Any member wishing to share above-published loads with Jason, or anyone else, please include the above BOLD caution notice. Thanks for your cooperation.
I began writing the above before C. R. Sam and Bacchus posted theirs. Please take note of their advice. C. R.'s recurring theme is that one should check a second source before using any warmish load. I heartily endorse this wise counsel.
Best regards,
Johnny Guest
H&r Forum Moderaor
Jason280 - - This way lies madness.
Truly hot loading in .44 Special is a thing of the past. Indeed, the Esteemed Elmer did a lot of pioneering work with the .44 Special, leading directly to the advent of the .44 magnum. He also worked right up over the edge, with little access to chronography or pressure testing gear. Also, back then, folks were realistic about risk taking--If you took a risk and ruined a gun, or hurt yourself, ''twas on one's own head. Nowadays, people file law suits at the drop of a hat.
Also, in E. Keith's day, there WERE no small-to-medium frame .44 Specials (of which I am aware.
) The .44 Spls back then were all Colt New Service or SAA, or S&W .45-size (later N-Frames) types. And, careful reading of the contemporarily-published articles show numerous instances of damaged guns. Today, we have the Charter Arms Bulldog and the L-frame Smiths and some Rossis and Taurii, none of which take well to super heavy loads. I don not doubt you can get away with a lot of hot loads, being as you have a .44 Magnum. My main worry is the same as when one puts .357 mag loads into .38 Spl cases--If one of the hot .44 Spl loads strays into a Charter, - - - Well, the image isn't pretty.
CAUTION: The hand load below includes information which exceeds currently-published MAXIMUM LOADS. It is provided for reference only. USE AT YOUR OWN RISK! Neither TFL ownership nor staff assume any liability for damage or injury to persons or gear resulting from use of this information.
All that said, I'll share my favorite .44 Special load--
A good LSWC, 240 to 255 gr., with 7.5 Unique. Depending on barrel length and other variables, it pushes 1000 fps. I use mainly R-P cases and Win LP primers. This is an accurate load and will kill any white tail deer in Texas, stipulating good placement. Considering that the factory 246 RNL seldom reaches 700 fps in a revolver, the above load is a big improvement. I'll shoot 'em all day, in MY guns. I've shot thousands of 'em in several Colts and Smiths. It is NOT pleasant to shoot in the Charter Bulldog, and is about all I care to handle in the L-Frame S&W. I have a couple of old manuals which include this load, but it is NOT currently listed.
Re: The 240 XTP bullet--A fine product, but expansion below 900 fps is said to be slight. If you have a source of commercially cast LSWC bullets, you may find them just as satisfactory, and a great deal lower priced.
NOTE: Any member wishing to share above-published loads with Jason, or anyone else, please include the above BOLD caution notice. Thanks for your cooperation.
I began writing the above before C. R. Sam and Bacchus posted theirs. Please take note of their advice. C. R.'s recurring theme is that one should check a second source before using any warmish load. I heartily endorse this wise counsel.
Best regards,
Johnny Guest
H&r Forum Moderaor
Thanks for the recommendation, Johnny. I think I will try the 7.5gr Unique behind a lead bullet. The reason I wanted a load like this was because I shoot a lot, and I really don't want to put too many heavy .44 mag loads through my 629. I figure a 240gr bullet at 1000 fps should be more than enough for the small whitetails here in GA, at least out to 50 yards. Plus, it will be a nice target load and will be easy to shoot.
Elmer Keith used heavy loads of 2400 in his pioneering days with the .44 Special. Even if you do find this load, do not try to duplicate it today. The cases used in Elmer Keith's day were the old "balloon" cases. They were made different than current cases, and had more case capacity. There are plenty of loads in current manuals which should satisfy your needs.
The disadvantage of Special cases in a .44 mag is that you will build up grunge in the cylinder, using the short case. You will then have trouble loading the full length magnum cases. You may find a little less acuracy also, due to the longer bullet jump to the rifling.
BTW, I have shot mostly full power, heavy loads in my 629, and I reckon it's had better than 1000 rounds of full tilt ammo through it. You can see the group it recently shot in the Revolver forum, in your other thread Keep it reasonable, and you'll have no trouble with your Smith.
Speer does have a 200 grain bullet that is specifically designed for lower velocities. I think it's a bit light for deer, though - intended more for two legged varmints
Keith also used hard cast bullets, not jacketed, and that does affect maximum charges. I'd stick to published data, and .44 mag cases.
BTW, I have shot mostly full power, heavy loads in my 629, and I reckon it's had better than 1000 rounds of full tilt ammo through it. You can see the group it recently shot in the Revolver forum, in your other thread
Keep it reasonable, and you'll have no trouble with your Smith.Speer does have a 200 grain bullet that is specifically designed for lower velocities. I think it's a bit light for deer, though - intended more for two legged varmints
Keith also used hard cast bullets, not jacketed, and that does affect maximum charges. I'd stick to published data, and .44 mag cases.
I'm still trying to figure out why it's preferable to use the Special cases.
.44 Special is a delight to shoot. Indeed, I have shot many of Johnny's above-listed loads, and found them to be a joy through a .44 Magnum Blackhawk.
But would they have been any less fun if I'd loaded the same load in a Magnum case? Sure, it'd be a little light for a Magnum, but what of it?
You want some fun? Load some standard Specials in those Special cases. Plain old, boring Specials (Say, 6.3 Unique behind a 240g LSWC or even a 200g LSWC ) are just plain fun!
Consult your manuals.
.44 Special is a delight to shoot. Indeed, I have shot many of Johnny's above-listed loads, and found them to be a joy through a .44 Magnum Blackhawk.
But would they have been any less fun if I'd loaded the same load in a Magnum case? Sure, it'd be a little light for a Magnum, but what of it?
You want some fun? Load some standard Specials in those Special cases. Plain old, boring Specials (Say, 6.3 Unique behind a 240g LSWC or even a 200g LSWC ) are just plain fun!
Consult your manuals.
Johnny Guest
Moderator in Memoriam
A decent question - - -
Long Path wrote:
I like to be able to tell at a glance what load I have in hand. If I see a LSWC in a .44 Spl case, I know it is the Unique load discussed above. It is plenty powerful for most uses, and is pleasant and accurate in both my Ruger and Colt. I can shoot it rapidly, if this is needed. the same bullet in Magnum cases is something else, and so on. (I do the same thing with .38SPL/.357Mag loads.)
I have a custom Super Blackhawk which is a nifty field gun, but the small trigger guard hurts the arthritic first joint of my trigger finger if I use heavy loads in a hurry. My pet load is comfortable, and is likely what I'll be carrying afield. Now, if I'm sitting, watching a game trail, I'll likely have heavier loads loaded, because I can take time to assume the glove or protective hand hold to avoid the PAIN.
It seems to take some hundreds of rounds of Special-length loads in magnum chambers to create a fouling problem. In any case, I don't put high intensity loads into special cases, so that forward chamber errosion becomes a problem.
Your Mileage, naturally, May Vary.
Best,
Johnny Guest
Long Path wrote:
Well, I have a couple of reasons which suit ME, but perhaps not others.
I like to be able to tell at a glance what load I have in hand. If I see a LSWC in a .44 Spl case, I know it is the Unique load discussed above. It is plenty powerful for most uses, and is pleasant and accurate in both my Ruger and Colt. I can shoot it rapidly, if this is needed. the same bullet in Magnum cases is something else, and so on. (I do the same thing with .38SPL/.357Mag loads.)
I have a custom Super Blackhawk which is a nifty field gun, but the small trigger guard hurts the arthritic first joint of my trigger finger if I use heavy loads in a hurry. My pet load is comfortable, and is likely what I'll be carrying afield. Now, if I'm sitting, watching a game trail, I'll likely have heavier loads loaded, because I can take time to assume the glove or protective hand hold to avoid the PAIN.
It seems to take some hundreds of rounds of Special-length loads in magnum chambers to create a fouling problem. In any case, I don't put high intensity loads into special cases, so that forward chamber errosion becomes a problem.
Your Mileage, naturally, May Vary.
Best,
Johnny Guest
Regarding the use of 44 Special cases, I note that some bullets are really better suited for loading into one case or the other.
A classic example of this is the Lyman 429421 (Keith) bullet (unless the design has been modefied by Lyman in the 35 years since I purchased my mould). The cylinder of S&W N & pre N frames isn't as long as the cylinder of large frame Ruger or some Colt revolvers. The 44 Special case crimps exactly into the crimp croove of this bullet at an ideal overall length to fit the S&W's cylinder. When the 44 Magnum case is used, this bullet has to be seated within the case to the "shoulder" in order to attain a cartridge with a permissable overall length in at least some S&W's.
Conversely, the crimping cannelure of the now discontinued Barnes original handgun bullets was so far forward that pressure issues were a possibility were this bullet used in a 44 Special- particularily in a triplelock or 2nd model hand ejector.
Bob
A classic example of this is the Lyman 429421 (Keith) bullet (unless the design has been modefied by Lyman in the 35 years since I purchased my mould). The cylinder of S&W N & pre N frames isn't as long as the cylinder of large frame Ruger or some Colt revolvers. The 44 Special case crimps exactly into the crimp croove of this bullet at an ideal overall length to fit the S&W's cylinder. When the 44 Magnum case is used, this bullet has to be seated within the case to the "shoulder" in order to attain a cartridge with a permissable overall length in at least some S&W's.
Conversely, the crimping cannelure of the now discontinued Barnes original handgun bullets was so far forward that pressure issues were a possibility were this bullet used in a 44 Special- particularily in a triplelock or 2nd model hand ejector.
Bob
Johnny Guest
Moderator in Memoriam
Ah, the grand old classic - - -
bfoster, since you're familiar with that great old bullet design - - -
You may be interested to know that the RCBS/Speer/whomever comglomerate is again producing that bullet mould. I believe they call it the 44-250K. Easily recognizable in their illustrations.
I was told by a Speer rep that someone submitted an original Lyman-Ideal set of blocks to use for the pattern.
I keep meaning to order a set, just to have, though I may well have finished casting bullets. Back in the 1960s, I bought the same bullet, in gas check design, because my local supplier in Fort Worth didn't have the plain base in stock. I never noticed the gas check doing any particular good, but was afraid to shoot it without, for fear of gas cutting on the little step at the heel. I probably shot 5,000 of those before I stupidly traded off my factory nickle 1926 five-inch S&W.
Best,
Johnny Guest
bfoster, since you're familiar with that great old bullet design - - -
You may be interested to know that the RCBS/Speer/whomever comglomerate is again producing that bullet mould. I believe they call it the 44-250K. Easily recognizable in their illustrations.
I was told by a Speer rep that someone submitted an original Lyman-Ideal set of blocks to use for the pattern.
I keep meaning to order a set, just to have, though I may well have finished casting bullets. Back in the 1960s, I bought the same bullet, in gas check design, because my local supplier in Fort Worth didn't have the plain base in stock. I never noticed the gas check doing any particular good, but was afraid to shoot it without, for fear of gas cutting on the little step at the heel. I probably shot 5,000 of those before I stupidly traded off my factory nickle 1926 five-inch S&W.
Best,
Johnny Guest
As an addendum to what bfoster said if you happen to have a carbine in say .44 Magnum and want to shoot Keith 240's in it you run into a problem with OAL in the magnum brass. I like to shoot moderate loads most of the time with Unique as the propellant. Using .44 Special brass (or deep seating the bullets in .44 Mag brass) reduces the case volumn and makes for a more efficent and economical load while achieving the same velocity. My load of 9.5 gr of Unique behind a 240 gr Keith SWC when crimpped on the drive band functions perfectly in my Rossi 92; achieves the same velocity as 10 gr. of Unique when crimpped in the crimp groove; and is more accurate in my 29 S&W, Ruger SBH, and carbine. regards, birdman
Jason
Here is a link to sixguns.com & some of Taffin's articles on the .44 special. He discusses the heavy .44 loads, but also doesn't shoot them much, anymore.
www.sixguns.com/tests/tt44spec.htm
Here is a link to sixguns.com & some of Taffin's articles on the .44 special. He discusses the heavy .44 loads, but also doesn't shoot them much, anymore.
www.sixguns.com/tests/tt44spec.htm
Interesting.
Mark your loads when you do that stuff. It's funny how they can sneak into hodgepodge piles of ammo.
I once loaded up some .38 special cases with a +P+ load that really should not be shot out of most .38 specials. It was to be shot out of my Colt Officer's Model Special, which is a very large, heavy frame revolver that, I believe, pre-dated the advent of the .357 Magnum. At any rate, I wanted to load some "short magnums" for it, and did so with about 100 XTP 158g bullets. I ended up shooting up about half of them.
To this day, I won't shoot any .38 spl XTP handloads that I find in my stuff out of anything but that big revolver. Imagine how rough it'd be on a J-frame Airweight Chief's Special. Sheesh. And the thing is, I really like the XTP 158g bullet, too! Wish I'd marked the case heads with red marker. Live and learn.
Mark your loads when you do that stuff. It's funny how they can sneak into hodgepodge piles of ammo.
I once loaded up some .38 special cases with a +P+ load that really should not be shot out of most .38 specials. It was to be shot out of my Colt Officer's Model Special, which is a very large, heavy frame revolver that, I believe, pre-dated the advent of the .357 Magnum. At any rate, I wanted to load some "short magnums" for it, and did so with about 100 XTP 158g bullets. I ended up shooting up about half of them.
To this day, I won't shoot any .38 spl XTP handloads that I find in my stuff out of anything but that big revolver. Imagine how rough it'd be on a J-frame Airweight Chief's Special. Sheesh. And the thing is, I really like the XTP 158g bullet, too! Wish I'd marked the case heads with red marker.
Live and learn.Long Path,
If indeed the revolver you shot the +P+ 38 Specials from is one of the Colt Officers series, not one from the New Service series, it is a "41 frame" not a "45 frame". The 41 Long Colt (inside lubricated) shot a 196 or 200 grain bullet at low velocity, the standard charge was about 2.5 grains of Bullseye. If this gun antedates the 357 Magnum by more than a few years, it is probably not, in the modern sense, heat treated. Revolvers made by either Colt or Smith & Wesson prior to 1927 cannot be assumed to have any heat treatment to the frame or cylinder, though heat treatment of some parts in some models started earlier.
Strong and accurate as the grand old revolvers like the Shooting Master, Officers Model Target, Triplelock, and prewar K38 are, they simply aren't up to a steady diet of +P+ ammunition. While catastrophic failure is not likely with the loads you were using, wear and tear will be accelerated substantially. Trust me, parts can be a real headache to obtain (some much more so than others). I greatly enjoy shooting vintage handguns, but I do so with ammunition loaded to pressures not higher than these arms were designed for.
Bob
If indeed the revolver you shot the +P+ 38 Specials from is one of the Colt Officers series, not one from the New Service series, it is a "41 frame" not a "45 frame". The 41 Long Colt (inside lubricated) shot a 196 or 200 grain bullet at low velocity, the standard charge was about 2.5 grains of Bullseye. If this gun antedates the 357 Magnum by more than a few years, it is probably not, in the modern sense, heat treated. Revolvers made by either Colt or Smith & Wesson prior to 1927 cannot be assumed to have any heat treatment to the frame or cylinder, though heat treatment of some parts in some models started earlier.
Strong and accurate as the grand old revolvers like the Shooting Master, Officers Model Target, Triplelock, and prewar K38 are, they simply aren't up to a steady diet of +P+ ammunition. While catastrophic failure is not likely with the loads you were using, wear and tear will be accelerated substantially. Trust me, parts can be a real headache to obtain (some much more so than others). I greatly enjoy shooting vintage handguns, but I do so with ammunition loaded to pressures not higher than these arms were designed for.
Bob
Elmer Keith used 2400 in his "souped up" .44 Special loads to get velocities near your goal, using his cast bullets. Be aware these are well above normal .44 Specials in terms of both velocity and pressure.
CAUTION: The handload data below includes information which exceeds currently-published MAXIMUM LOADS. It is provided for reference only. USE AT YOUR OWN RISK! Neither TFL ownership nor staff nor the poster assume any liability for damage or injury to persons or gear resulting from use of this information.
The "Classic" Keith load was 18.0 grains of 2400 behind his 250 grain Keith bullet. He supposedly developed this using old "balloon head" cases. (Aside: Though I've seen old balloon head .45LC cases, I've never personally handled a balloon head .44 Special case.) When cases with solid heads came out, he reportedly dropped the load back to 17.0 grains, due to the increased pressure from the reduced volume of the case. IIRC, Elmer used a standard, not a magnum, primer. These loads are OK for a .44 Magnum, but if you put them in, say, an old Charter Arms Bulldog .44, something really bad could happen.
Elmer is known to have blown up more than one revolver during his experiments.
The 18.0/2400 load puts a Lyman 429244 cast gascheck out of my 6 1/2" M29 at about 1070 ft/sec when sparked by a Magnum primer, and loaded in Magnum brass . . . a bit less than most references claim. I suppose I might get more velocity - and pressure - if I loaded it in .44 Special brass, but I really, really dislike the idea of putting Mag or near-Mag loads in brass from a lesser cartridge.
When loaded in Special cases, I've used 14.5 grains of 2400 behind the same bullet. The load seems very mild, but it's also very dirty, producing lots of unburned powder . . . enough to gum up the revolver when it finds its way under the extractor star.
I've had good luck using SR4756 for loading .44 Specials - burned cleaner than Unique by a wide margin. I'm not absolutely sure I remember the exact load, so I won't post a guess - just consult a good manual. IIRC, the charge filled only a fraction of the case, so take care to avoid double or triple charging.
BTW, you mentioned using a Hornady 240 XTP. Be advised, that "most" of the time, a jacketed bullet will generate higher pressure but less velocity than a cast bullet of the same weight when loaded over a given powder charge.
CAUTION: The handload data below includes information which exceeds currently-published MAXIMUM LOADS. It is provided for reference only. USE AT YOUR OWN RISK! Neither TFL ownership nor staff nor the poster assume any liability for damage or injury to persons or gear resulting from use of this information.
The "Classic" Keith load was 18.0 grains of 2400 behind his 250 grain Keith bullet. He supposedly developed this using old "balloon head" cases. (Aside: Though I've seen old balloon head .45LC cases, I've never personally handled a balloon head .44 Special case.) When cases with solid heads came out, he reportedly dropped the load back to 17.0 grains, due to the increased pressure from the reduced volume of the case. IIRC, Elmer used a standard, not a magnum, primer. These loads are OK for a .44 Magnum, but if you put them in, say, an old Charter Arms Bulldog .44, something really bad could happen.
Elmer is known to have blown up more than one revolver during his experiments.
The 18.0/2400 load puts a Lyman 429244 cast gascheck out of my 6 1/2" M29 at about 1070 ft/sec when sparked by a Magnum primer, and loaded in Magnum brass . . . a bit less than most references claim. I suppose I might get more velocity - and pressure - if I loaded it in .44 Special brass, but I really, really dislike the idea of putting Mag or near-Mag loads in brass from a lesser cartridge.
When loaded in Special cases, I've used 14.5 grains of 2400 behind the same bullet. The load seems very mild, but it's also very dirty, producing lots of unburned powder . . . enough to gum up the revolver when it finds its way under the extractor star.
I've had good luck using SR4756 for loading .44 Specials - burned cleaner than Unique by a wide margin. I'm not absolutely sure I remember the exact load, so I won't post a guess - just consult a good manual. IIRC, the charge filled only a fraction of the case, so take care to avoid double or triple charging.
BTW, you mentioned using a Hornady 240 XTP. Be advised, that "most" of the time, a jacketed bullet will generate higher pressure but less velocity than a cast bullet of the same weight when loaded over a given powder charge.
Johnny Guest
Moderator in Memoriam
Some very good points being made in this thread - - -
HankB, you mention reduced velocities and greater pressures with the jacketed bullets vs lead. I think a lot of us lost sight of one point some years back: The larger bullets are already the size to which the smaller, expanding, bullets aspire. A clean kill on a game animal is as often a function of good, straight-line penetration as of expansion. AND, I think the "dangers" of over penetration, except possibly for indoors home defense, are rather exaggerated.
Not to mention, the XTP bullets probably cost over twice as much to shoot as the lead bullets, and, if plinking or target practicing, what is the profit? Well, yeah, you want to practice at least SOME with the actual hunting loads.
Best,
Johnny Guest
HankB, you mention reduced velocities and greater pressures with the jacketed bullets vs lead. I think a lot of us lost sight of one point some years back: The larger bullets are already the size to which the smaller, expanding, bullets aspire. A clean kill on a game animal is as often a function of good, straight-line penetration as of expansion. AND, I think the "dangers" of over penetration, except possibly for indoors home defense, are rather exaggerated.
Not to mention, the XTP bullets probably cost over twice as much to shoot as the lead bullets, and, if plinking or target practicing, what is the profit? Well, yeah, you want to practice at least SOME with the actual hunting loads.
Best,
Johnny Guest
My 44 magnum/special is a Marlin 1894P with a 16" barrel.
I had the same problem using 2400 for 44 special. I loaded 12 grains and my ported 1894 was spitting unburned flakes so bad I changed to another powder for 44 special. The muzzle velocity was only 775 fps (with a 240 grain hard cast LSWC).
I used 9.5 grains of Blue Dot under a 255 grain hard cast, LSWC Keith bullet. The velocity was 903 fps. I would like to have a special for the Marlin that goes about 1,100 fps. I'm going to try Unique - perhaps a faster burning powder will get me there.
It's interesting to me that the 44 magnum velocity improves with the increase in barrel lenght, but the special seems to max out somewhere in the middle.
The 44 special balloon cases may allow more powder space, but they were overall weaker cases - weren't they? I have a few that I culled out of some once-fired cases I purchased.
For 44 magnum and 357 magnum I use 2400 exclusively.
I had the same problem using 2400 for 44 special. I loaded 12 grains and my ported 1894 was spitting unburned flakes so bad I changed to another powder for 44 special. The muzzle velocity was only 775 fps (with a 240 grain hard cast LSWC).
I used 9.5 grains of Blue Dot under a 255 grain hard cast, LSWC Keith bullet. The velocity was 903 fps. I would like to have a special for the Marlin that goes about 1,100 fps. I'm going to try Unique - perhaps a faster burning powder will get me there.
It's interesting to me that the 44 magnum velocity improves with the increase in barrel lenght, but the special seems to max out somewhere in the middle.
The 44 special balloon cases may allow more powder space, but they were overall weaker cases - weren't they? I have a few that I culled out of some once-fired cases I purchased.
For 44 magnum and 357 magnum I use 2400 exclusively.