ive been reading alot and going threw alot of threads where people dont like the .380 becuase its weak or a european caliber...and today i held a .380 and a 9mm together and they are actually really close in size except the bullet in the 9mm was longer than the .380...but honestly i want to hear from people who have fired these rounds are they good enough to stop someone who tryning to attack me ? or if ever in a gun fight is it enough to drop a man?....and the gun im going to buy is a new Walther PKK/S S&W version if anyone was wondering...thanks
Honestly? is the .380 that weak?
- Thread starter epic4444
- Start date
Playboypenguin
Moderator
Just ask all the dead men all over Europe that have died from the .380 round.
As far as power, the 9mm will go faster and hit harder but the .380acp is still more than adequate to stop a man at close range.
Here is a great link to cheack out the ballistic differences.
http://www.gunsandammomag.com/ballistics/?url=%2Fballistics%2F9mm_luger_9x19mm.html&x=12&y=2
I am a big fan of the .380acp pistols. I own a few of them and carry them often.
As far as power, the 9mm will go faster and hit harder but the .380acp is still more than adequate to stop a man at close range.
Here is a great link to cheack out the ballistic differences.
http://www.gunsandammomag.com/ballistics/?url=%2Fballistics%2F9mm_luger_9x19mm.html&x=12&y=2
I am a big fan of the .380acp pistols. I own a few of them and carry them often.
The Tourist
Moderator
One of my self defense guns is a Colt Government .380 ACP that was fully customized by Terry Tussey. I stake my life on this little pistol every day. It's with me now.
Of course, I also keep it loaded with Gold-Dots, and I believe that's the real issue.
Even though I handload, I do not handload the .380 ACP. I buy them bulk or on sale. Usually they are the FMJ load. And it's the FMJ loading that I believe ranks the cartridge.
I think it would take a quite a man to suffer a 'Mozambique' from a distance across a room with Gold-Dots or Golden Sabers.
Of course, I also keep it loaded with Gold-Dots, and I believe that's the real issue.
Even though I handload, I do not handload the .380 ACP. I buy them bulk or on sale. Usually they are the FMJ load. And it's the FMJ loading that I believe ranks the cartridge.
I think it would take a quite a man to suffer a 'Mozambique' from a distance across a room with Gold-Dots or Golden Sabers.
The 380 is not worthless, it is however in my, and many others mind the BARE, BARE minimum in terms of an autopistol round, yes may people have died from the 380, many have have not been stoped as well or not been stoped as well as one woudl like. Of course this can be said of any pistol round, though to a lessor degree as one goes up the caliber scale.
Yeah if given the choice I would always prefer to have a 1911 in 45 ACP, but then I don't always want to lug the thing, that is where the beauty of the 380 guns come in, esp. the Seecamp, though the current crop of micro sized 9mm guns is making a lot of 380's take a back seat in popularity.
Yeah if given the choice I would always prefer to have a 1911 in 45 ACP, but then I don't always want to lug the thing, that is where the beauty of the 380 guns come in, esp. the Seecamp, though the current crop of micro sized 9mm guns is making a lot of 380's take a back seat in popularity.
The Tourist
Moderator
"BARE, BARE minimum"
Like anything else, tools have limitations.
I am not a police officer, or in fact, any kind of a sworn officer. If attacked, I'd like to be able to grab my wife and back up out of harm's way.
And while I have many 1911A1's and a few more modern .40 SWs, I still have to have a firearm that is easy to carry with a manual of arms that is familiar for my wife. She much prefers 5-shot SW J-Frames.
I will not be initiating any kind of a prolonged, toe-to-toe exchange. I will be running as far south of trouble as I can. In that scenario, eight shots and a magazine reload should get me to cover and a cell phone.
For me, the little Tussey is the correct choice.
Like anything else, tools have limitations.
I am not a police officer, or in fact, any kind of a sworn officer. If attacked, I'd like to be able to grab my wife and back up out of harm's way.
And while I have many 1911A1's and a few more modern .40 SWs, I still have to have a firearm that is easy to carry with a manual of arms that is familiar for my wife. She much prefers 5-shot SW J-Frames.
I will not be initiating any kind of a prolonged, toe-to-toe exchange. I will be running as far south of trouble as I can. In that scenario, eight shots and a magazine reload should get me to cover and a cell phone.
For me, the little Tussey is the correct choice.
I don't know a lot about Euro males...
But I have seen my share of '380 U.S. bullet hole scars' as self-described by their owners. A lot of knifes too. Creep vs Creep gun fights. What a shame. Don't know of too many .40 Anything bullethole scars with talking owners.
A lot of bullet scars on our above mentioned euro buddies comes from guys cocking the slide with the muzzel pointed at their own ribbs, left side for right handed shooters. The reader will have to figure this one out because I am not going to write, "How to improperly cycle the slide on your favorite hideout gun".
Oh yea, there are a lot of self inflicted gunshot wounds, .22, .25, 32, 380, some on purpose and some not; to form some solid opinions.
Remember, stay clear & walk away if and when you can.
But I have seen my share of '380 U.S. bullet hole scars' as self-described by their owners. A lot of knifes too. Creep vs Creep gun fights. What a shame. Don't know of too many .40 Anything bullethole scars with talking owners.
A lot of bullet scars on our above mentioned euro buddies comes from guys cocking the slide with the muzzel pointed at their own ribbs, left side for right handed shooters. The reader will have to figure this one out because I am not going to write, "How to improperly cycle the slide on your favorite hideout gun".
Oh yea, there are a lot of self inflicted gunshot wounds, .22, .25, 32, 380, some on purpose and some not; to form some solid opinions.
Remember, stay clear & walk away if and when you can.
Some men in some armies have gone off to war armed with .380 pistols. It was standard in three European armies that I can think of (Hungary, Italy and Yugoslavia). And then there is the 9mm Makarov that the Soviets used for something like 50 years, not to mention the 7.62 Nagant revolver which is about as powerful. 7.65mm pistols were also widely carried. The British managed to get through the war using revolvers in .38 S&W (.38 Regular, as one US Army manual called it).
Mind you, those are all handguns and all those countries used more or less normal caliber rifles, all more powerful than 5.56 NATO.
Curiously, the Italians during WWII used the 9mm Luger but not in handguns. And they used an 8mm rifle cartridge but not in rifles (same as the Swedes).
Mind you, those are all handguns and all those countries used more or less normal caliber rifles, all more powerful than 5.56 NATO.
Curiously, the Italians during WWII used the 9mm Luger but not in handguns. And they used an 8mm rifle cartridge but not in rifles (same as the Swedes).
IMHO for deep carry or concealed carry and light cloths the pocket guns in .32 and .380 will work for CQ and emergency situations when nothing else greater is at hand. Good sense, danger avoidance and retreat are the best defense, but when you must face the BG without recourse a .32 / .380 will be a god send.
For HD and other carry times when a larger frame caliber is available I will pick up the .45 given the opportunity. My present carry choice is a Seecamp .32 with a .380 on order. They go anywhere, any time and I feel safer than without.
Bottom line ... bigger is generally better, but shot placement will trump size.
Always has always will.
Good shooting
For HD and other carry times when a larger frame caliber is available I will pick up the .45 given the opportunity. My present carry choice is a Seecamp .32 with a .380 on order. They go anywhere, any time and I feel safer than without.
Bottom line ... bigger is generally better, but shot placement will trump size.
Always has always will.
Good shooting
I saw an gell test of .32 ball at around 15 inches.
380 ball can go at least that. That's enough.
Problem is when people take weak rounds, give them hollow points, and, the HP's don't get close to penetrating enough.
Great if you are shooting rats, not good if the BG is 300 pounds plus.
Dr S
380 ball can go at least that. That's enough.
Problem is when people take weak rounds, give them hollow points, and, the HP's don't get close to penetrating enough.
Great if you are shooting rats, not good if the BG is 300 pounds plus.
Dr S
Have you considered a Makarov? Slightly more powerful than a .380, nice balance of size, shootability, and portability. I usually carry a Steyr S9, but yesterday when I went to the store and didn't wish to wear a concealmant shirt I dropped the Mak in my pocket and did not feel poorly armed.
Redneckrepairs
New member
Well folks lets get in the way back machine for a sec and look at what has historically been adequate.
One of the most famous gunfighters in the old west was Wild Bill Hickock who carried a brace of .36 navy cap and ball revolvers . Now the .36 cap and ball comes in at .36 x 70gr x 900fps , hmmm those figures look an awful lot like .380 ball ( and i for one would not want to be the hombre to tell 'Wild Bill' that he is carrying sub standard equipment lol .
In his biography for which he was interviewed, Wyatt Earp states that he witnessed Wild Bill put all five shots of one of his brace of Navy Colts inside an "O" on a shop store some 50 to 75yds distant when asked how good he really was. Though the biography was written by an author well - known for his dime novels, it is also well known that Wild Bill practiced daily, firing at targets of opportunity then cleaning his weapons before reloading them for another day's duty. Now i am not advocating the .380 as the " best " round for defense , but it will do a bit more than wound a grasshopper if you do your part .
Over the years I have seen several folks who absorbed .380 rounds and where they were hit seemed to be the main factor on how well it worked ... just like the folks i have seen shot with bigger rounds .
Edited to add:
Since i am not as good a shot as Wild Bill i consider the 9mm to be my normal floor round , and have a Kahr pm9 which is smaller than many .380 pistols. I also have a P3at for the times that i absolutly cannot carry anything bigger .
One of the most famous gunfighters in the old west was Wild Bill Hickock who carried a brace of .36 navy cap and ball revolvers . Now the .36 cap and ball comes in at .36 x 70gr x 900fps , hmmm those figures look an awful lot like .380 ball ( and i for one would not want to be the hombre to tell 'Wild Bill' that he is carrying sub standard equipment lol .
In his biography for which he was interviewed, Wyatt Earp states that he witnessed Wild Bill put all five shots of one of his brace of Navy Colts inside an "O" on a shop store some 50 to 75yds distant when asked how good he really was. Though the biography was written by an author well - known for his dime novels, it is also well known that Wild Bill practiced daily, firing at targets of opportunity then cleaning his weapons before reloading them for another day's duty. Now i am not advocating the .380 as the " best " round for defense , but it will do a bit more than wound a grasshopper if you do your part .
Over the years I have seen several folks who absorbed .380 rounds and where they were hit seemed to be the main factor on how well it worked ... just like the folks i have seen shot with bigger rounds .
Edited to add:
Since i am not as good a shot as Wild Bill i consider the 9mm to be my normal floor round , and have a Kahr pm9 which is smaller than many .380 pistols. I also have a P3at for the times that i absolutly cannot carry anything bigger .
There are no degrees of death. Shot placement trumps caliber in too many cases.
Some people, because of their career choices, are more likely to face an armed encounter than others. A CCW holder is less likely to have to fight for his/her life than most LEOs, as they have no duty to act. Can you defend yourself from attack with a .380? Yes. Will it be as effective as something heavier against the "300 lb. assailant"? No. Then again, a .454 Casull won't be overly effective against a body-armored 300 pounder, either. Especially if he's high on speed or crack.
All too many people "what if" occurrences. The area that we've settled in has little crime. Armed robberies are rare here, as are assault. That may have something to do with the high rate of CCW. Knowing this, I usually carry a Kel-Tec P32 in a pocket holster. I can shoot it well under stress, and the little weapon is reliable. Should I venture into a more criminally active area, I usually opt for something in a more serious caliber, .40 S&W or .45 ACP. The little .32 is still going to be there, though. I, for one, am going to walk away from trouble. Failing that, I'll run away from trouble. The last thing that I want to do is fight my way clear. I have no desire to absorb even a .22 Short round.
The .380 has long been capable of working in the normal statistical gun-fight for the CCW. Less than ten feet, frontal shot, unarmored opponent. Living in Georgia, the heavy clothing scenario of the North doesn't apply, either.
If you like it, use it. Practice until hitting your target becomes second nature. You may find that the 9mm locked-breech weapons actually recoil less in like-sized weapons, though.
Some people, because of their career choices, are more likely to face an armed encounter than others. A CCW holder is less likely to have to fight for his/her life than most LEOs, as they have no duty to act. Can you defend yourself from attack with a .380? Yes. Will it be as effective as something heavier against the "300 lb. assailant"? No. Then again, a .454 Casull won't be overly effective against a body-armored 300 pounder, either. Especially if he's high on speed or crack.
All too many people "what if" occurrences. The area that we've settled in has little crime. Armed robberies are rare here, as are assault. That may have something to do with the high rate of CCW. Knowing this, I usually carry a Kel-Tec P32 in a pocket holster. I can shoot it well under stress, and the little weapon is reliable. Should I venture into a more criminally active area, I usually opt for something in a more serious caliber, .40 S&W or .45 ACP. The little .32 is still going to be there, though. I, for one, am going to walk away from trouble. Failing that, I'll run away from trouble. The last thing that I want to do is fight my way clear. I have no desire to absorb even a .22 Short round.
The .380 has long been capable of working in the normal statistical gun-fight for the CCW. Less than ten feet, frontal shot, unarmored opponent. Living in Georgia, the heavy clothing scenario of the North doesn't apply, either.
If you like it, use it. Practice until hitting your target becomes second nature. You may find that the 9mm locked-breech weapons actually recoil less in like-sized weapons, though.
I am a fan of the Colt .380 Government Model, which at one time was available in a number of variations. None of them had any recoil to speak of. That, together with the flatness and small dimensions, made for a near-perfect small handgun. However, it was single action, which some people don't care for (some people don't care for automatics, either), but it would have been a good choice for someone that like the 1911. The only weak point, in my opinion, was a certain spring that was easily bent out of shape. Unfortunately, they are now hard to find. You might as well search for a pre-war Colt pocket auto.
The Walther PPK, on the other hand, is alive and kicking, literally. For that pistol, a .32 ACP might even be a better choice. A Makarov kicks even more for what it is.
The Walther PPK, on the other hand, is alive and kicking, literally. For that pistol, a .32 ACP might even be a better choice. A Makarov kicks even more for what it is.
I'm in the camp with the 'shot placement' crowd. Although I agree that the .380 is at the bottom of the self defense gene pool, there are some pretty powerful loads for this caliber available. My CZ83 .380 is a stout little pistol and inside of about 15 meters, very accurate. I shoot Gold Dots and Hydra-Shocks for SD and they seem to work well. FMJ loads tend to produce a noticeable heavier recoil.
My HD firearm is a Para Tac 4 .45ACP.
LM...Ft. Worth, Tx.
PO1 USN: 1964-1972 Viet Nam Vet
SFC US ARMY (NG): 1982-1996 Desert Storm Vet (ret.)
My HD firearm is a Para Tac 4 .45ACP.
LM...Ft. Worth, Tx.
PO1 USN: 1964-1972 Viet Nam Vet
SFC US ARMY (NG): 1982-1996 Desert Storm Vet (ret.)
Action_Can_Do
New member
I recall reading in the paper a few years ago about a couple who were attacked by a man using a 380acp. The husband was shot 5 times and lived. The wife was shot once and died. The 380 is plenty lethal. It isn't always reliable however. Even with good shot placement.
Sure with proper shot placement, the .380 is adequate; however, I would rather have something more than just adequate as a safety factor. I would like to think that in a life and death situation that I would have perfect shot placement, but I am a realist. The minimum that I feel comfortable with is 9mm. I would prefer a .40, but my 9's are smaller and lighter (more comfortable to carry). On the other hand, a .380 in your packet is better than a .45 in the safe...