HK vs. AR Accuracy

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P-990

New member
From what I have seen, with equal barrel and ammunition quality between rifles, I would NOT put money against an AR-based semi-auto against any other semi. If we get into Highpower match rifles, being fired from position, by shooters of the same classification, retaining the equal barrel and ammunition, I wouldn't necessarily bet on a bolt-action outscoring an AR 100% of the time. One of my acquitances from Highpower shoots an AR-15 based .223 space rifle, and watching him shoot is downright eery. (Yes, he is a High Master.)

BTW, nice H&K. Enjoy.
 
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Greg Bell

New member
My 22 year old 93' is quite a bit more accurate (not to mention 100% more reliable) than my buddies Bushmaster M4 knock-off. He sure looks tactical though! :) Right off the cover of SWAT magazine! ;)
 
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Lycanthrope

New member
My 22 year old 93' is quite a bit more accurate (not to mention 100% more reliable) than my buddies Bushmaster M4 knock-off
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The M4 knockoff isn't really inthe same ball park as say a White Oak Precision or Compass Lake AR-15 service rifle and those are more in keeping with the HK price range.

I had no idea how good an AR could be until I watched some CMP shooters.
 
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USMCsilver

New member
I love my ARs, but the HK just has that certain "thing" to it, if you know what I mean. The only mods I want to do to it is add a plastic grip frame and do a paddle mag release install, but the paddle will have to wait. I'm thinking about ditching my Saiga .308 to pay for the new grip frame, but I'm not too sure if I want to do that. :confused:

My HK sure does look pretty set up in the safe beside my other baby. It's now a toss up when I go to the safe and want to "play" with something...

M4%20w%20beta.jpg
 
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WmD

New member
My AR will put 3 shots in a dime size hole and 5 shots in a nickel size hole at 100m at will with cheap factory winch. ammo (just under 10 bucks for 40 rnds).. No bull barrel nor nm trigger (going to add the trigger soon) - just has 20" 1-7 twist free floated barrel.

Not sure if a HK can do the same, dont have one to compare to...
 
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Greg Bell

New member
Tam asks...

"What kind of groups does it shoot? What loads does it prefer?"

We were both shooting from the same 500 round can of Georgia Arms .223. We shot offhand, and from various jackass positions. I think we mainly shot at 50-75 yard. We were shooting at slowfire pistol targets with the big orange dot on them. Both of us were able to get better groups from the HK despite the AR's much lighter trigger (although my HK has a very smooth trigger, it is heavy). Neither one of us is a great rifleman. Both of us were able to keep our groups smaller than the orange dot most of the time (but not always exactly inside it). Neither of us used bipods or glass.




Lycenthrope sez...

"The M4 knockoff isn't really in the same ball park as say a White Oak Precision or Compass Lake AR-15 service rifle and those are more in keeping with the HK price range."



True, an off the rack H&K 93 is not going to be in the same league as a target rifle. And I'm sure Murray Urbach could cook up some monster Sniper HK93 variant that would shoot way beyond the ability of most off the rack Ars.


I was just reporting on the only contest between the two I have ever personally witnessed. I could care less which gun is better in theory (sounds like the rear-engined/front-engined debate to me). While I have been favorably impressed with the Ar-15 in terms of accuracy (it certainly does an excellent job), I have never been excited with their reliability. Of course, AR folks have to deal with about a billion different manufacturers and mags, but that isn't my fault either!

The kind of accuracy that target rifles are capable of is useless to me. I own rifles for hunting and personal protection/SHTF. I am just not that great a shot--and I have no interest in bench rest shooting. I keep an 870 Police with surefire and factory topfolder beside the bed--not the HK!
 
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JohnKSa

Administrator
That's a decent method for testing shootability but it's not very good for testing accuracy or reliability.
 
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Watch-Six

New member
My experience with AR15s is considerable over a long period of time. My experience with a single supposedly accurate HK was a tricked out .308 called the SR9T. It had the PSG trigger group and a bunch of other cool stuff that put it way out of the HK91 price range. The bottom line was however, that for accuracy any of the several AR15s I have owned would out shoot this $4,000.00 wonder. No, it wasn't a .223, but it was a big disappointment. I own some custom bolt rifles that will outdo my best ARs, but the HK SR9T certainly would not. That doesn't mean that HKs are not cool, but you asked about accuracy. Just my experience. Best. Watch-Six
 
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USMCsilver

New member
Got some toys today -- a clipped and pinned plastic 0-1-25 grip frame, new selector, and a feed tower for my Beta-C. All I have to do left is get the slots cut in the handguards and have ARS refinish it.

Here's my new favorite:

hkbeta.jpg
 
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Chui

New member
H&K SR9TC... Spooky Accurate

I once owned an H&K SR9TC. Actually, it owned me. Inanimate objects shouldn't own humans. So I sold it.

That rifle was cryogenically treated and meticulously broken in. It would CONSISTENTLY shoot under 1/2 inch at 100 yards and just over 1 inch at 200 yards. And I'm not a great shot. The optics were a Leupold MkIV 10X. I've not experienced that kind of accuracy out of an AR-15. I'm sure one can find it, but I never have.

If times were (politically different) I'd actually wish I still owned it.
 
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JohnKSa

Administrator
There are currently at least two companies currently making ARs that are guaranteed to shoot 1/2MOA with factory ammo. One is Clark Custom and the other is Les Baer. Both of them catalog rifles that cost considerably less than $4K.
 
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Greg Bell

New member
Why not just get a bolt rifle that shoots those groups for hundreds less but doesn't jam just as soon as you need it? The AR is an assault rifle, and in that role it is vastly inferior to the HK.
 
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Tamara

Moderator Emeritus
Greg Bell,

The AR is an assault rifle, and in that role it is vastly inferior to the HK.
Click to expand...

No, it isn't.

For a stamped and welded sheet-metal lo-bujt weapon, though, the HK holds up fairly well against the forged and machined alloy AR.
 
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Handy

Moderator
I think Tam is poking fun at you. The HK roller rifles seem to be the most reliable Western assault rifles going, but the AR15 family does a very good job these days, and are very easy guns to carry and shoot.
 
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Tamara

Moderator Emeritus
Handy,

Hey, much hay is made of how many countries actually produced domestic versions of the HK versus, say, the AR and the FAL. Given that the former is rich in sheet metal stampings and relatively devoid of complex machined forgings vis a vis the latter two, I know if I was dictator of a third world country which one I'd want the local toaster oven factory to attempt to churn out. ;)
 
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MTMilitiaman

New member
Actually, the PSG-1 must shoot a 50 round 1 MOA group at 300 meters or it won't leave the factory. I've seen a photocopied target of a group shot at 200 meters that was below 1/2 MOA.
 
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Tamara

Moderator Emeritus
MTMilitiaman,

Hey, I admitted my skillz were pretty far from 1337. ;) I'd still expect to do better with a PSG-1 than with, say, my No.1 RSI (a rifle not not noted for tackdriverness. :eek: ) I'd assume you had better luck with the ones you tried?
 
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