Help with my Rem 700 in 25-06!!

[landcruzr]

I recently aquired a remington 700 BDL in 25-06 and here are my problems so far-
At 100 yards I cant get a group any smaller than about 4".. I've tried factory loads and hand loads in various weights from 90 gr to 117 grains.

At 25 yards, I have to work very hard to keep rounds inside a 1" circle. And still am not always successful.

Before you question the shooter......I had my Savage 22-250 out on the bench next to the Remington-and thinking that I was having a bad day- I tried to see what the savage would do- and I shot several three round groups that were easilly covered with a nickle at 100 yards.

I have a Burris 2-7 variable scope mounted on the gun. I've glass bedded the stock and the crown looks to be in decent shape-(no visible dings)

I'm leaning towards a faulty scope as when I attempt to move the large group, the movement isnt appropriate for the adjustments made

I'm looking for any other ideas to look at after I mount the scope this coming weekend, and any info on loads that work best in your same guns?

Thanks in advance
landcruzr

 

[Doodlebugger45]

LOL

While some might think Taurus Champ's suggestion is perfectly reasonable, I for one think your idea of trying a different scope might be a more practical first step.

 

[comn-cents]

I'd start by re-check all my screws. I know you've probably done that but just a thought. I really wouldn't start cutting things, not just yet.

 

[landcruzr]

Ya- I think I'm going to hold off on getting the hack saw out for now-
But thanks for the honest thought

 

[sc928porsche]

After checking you scope and mount screws, check your stock screws. If they are tight, I would check and make sure that the barrel is free floating. You may need to recrown the barrel. Rebedding the stock might not be a bad idea either.

 

[Scorch]

I would try cutting an inch off barrel changing grip too did you try all the loads yet? if the inch doesn't work, cut anotehr inch off barrel.

Yeah, right.

I agree, check all of the screws to make sure they're tight, clean it well, check the forend to make sure your barrel isn't touching. That should be a MOA rifle with the right loads and shooter.

 

[Romey]

Also, if your shooting a bench, to pressure against your rest or backs can make a heck of a difference in group sizes same way shooting from a sling position the sling can change P.O.I.

 

[Hummer70]

Is the group round or elongated?

Have you tried changing scopes. Loose internal parts will do it.

Is the firing pin indent well centered or half the diameter of the firing pin off center?

What kind of ammo are you shooting.

Factory ammo and gun will shoot these kind of groups and meets SAAMI recommendations which by no means is a requirement.

Wouldn't hurt to get ammonia based bore cleaner and soak it out.

If you have access to a Ace Tru Value hardware store I will tell you how to make your own ammonia based cleaner.

 

[Al Thompson]

Take the scope from the .22-250 and put it on the .25-06.

Scopes have more problems than anything else on rifles. Eliminate the easy stuff before you start screwing with the big stuff.

 

[bamafan4life]

what kinda of rings are u using? burris usually dont make crap.

 

[hodaka]

Scope!

Try a swap.

 

[landcruzr]

OK- lets see if I can answer all the questions:
A new scope has been ordered- it will be mounted within the week and fired next week.
the groups were rounder in shape as apposed to elongated.
groups were five shots each.
ammo was both factory (20 rds) and handloads (30 rds) with no significant change in group size between the handloads and factory ammo. POI also remained about the same with both factory and handloads
the bullet weights ranged between 90 and 117 grains.
Rings and base are Burris as well as the scope
The gun was resting on bags under the drop plate, and a bag under the butt.
** The scope on the 22-250 isnt an option for the 25-06 **

Did I miss any?
And I'll take that recipe for Ammonia based cleaner

 

[Come and take it.]

Could be the scope.

Shame guns don't come out with iron sights anymore. you could use them as something to go by.

Iron sights may not offer the best sight picture but they are 100 percent mechanically reliable.

Just today I shot a friends AR with the iron sights so he would know whether it was worth mounting a scope on.

I had a Leupold vari-x II once that was defective. Had to get a replacement.

If it isn't the scope than I would be afraid to say it but you might want to go for another gun. Remingtons are not at quite the level of quality they once bathed in. Espescially in the barrel department (shoddy tooling in the bores). Unless its a select barrel for a 40-x or better.

I have owned 2 700 varmints that had rough cut bores that copper fouled and knew a friend who owned a 700 varmint with the same problem.

*prepares to duck before the onslaught of Remington-philes*

 

[landcruzr]

Actually it has Iron sights on it- and I didnt think of taking the scope off at the range to try that- I thought of it when I was calling it a bunch of names and ramming rods down its throat!!

 

[Come and take it.]

A MOA at 25 - 50 yards is the same as a MOA at a 100 yards. Just smaller.

Instead of the standard of an inch you would be looking for 1/4 inch (25 yards) and 1/2 inch (50 yards) respectively.

I have popped a 2 liter bottle at 450 yards with an L1A1 that I couldn't even see (had to use nearby objects as references).

 

[landcruzr]

Yes- I'm aware of MOA calculations which is why I stated that I could barely keep them in a 1" circle at 25 yrds. Thanks though

 

[Palmetto-Pride]

I would try cutting an inch off barrel changing grip too did you try all the loads yet? if the inch doesn't work, cut anotehr inch off barrel. this will work or you will get a cool custom pistol. either way you win. my buddy had the sanme problem so he made a truck pistol for when we're out an something crawls out in the country ya know.

I don't normally criticize other peoples advice, but that is absolutely absurd, this guy is kidding I hope.............lol I can't stop laughing thanks for that wow I needed a good laugh.

Anyway I see you are going the scope route good choice.

 

[44 AMP]

** The scope on the 22-250 isnt an option for the 25-06 **

why? won't it fit?

Based on what you have tried, and what you have checked, the scope seems to be the most obvious suspect. Using iron sights (if equipped), or any other scope (including one not suitable for hunting) will at least tell you if your current scope is to blame, or not.

Also, 4 inch 5 shot groups, may not all be the gun. Are we talking about relatively evenly spread shots, or a reasonably small cluster with a flier or two? two/three shots in a tight group?or ....?

since you shoot well with the .22-250, the odds are it isn't you. Hows the trigger pull on the .25-06? Fairly good? or not?

Your rifle may not be a MOA rifle (Internet rules to the contrary, not all rifles are), but less than 2 MOA should be expected.

Making a rifle shoot well is (or can be) a multi step process. Change only one thing at a time, and permanent changes should only be done as a last resort.

One other thing to consider, the rifle was used, yes? (you didn't say it was new). It could be copper fouled. Smallbore high intensity rounds often get this way. A good thorough cleaning with a product intended to remove copper fouling might just make a huge change. I recommend RB-17, it works great, but I don't know if you can get it, they no longer sell direct to the public. Ammonia based cleaners will work, but there are also other less toxic/hazardous alternatives.

Clean the bore to remove copper fouling, and replace the scope, and try again. And please, let us know what happens.

Good Luck.

 

[landcruzr]

Thanks 44-
The scope on my 22-250 isnt an option for a couple reasons-
1) my 22-250 is dialed in and I dont really want to start from scratch removing and remounting again-I'm from the school that teaches when something works-leave it alone.....
2) I have a small problem with a few fox here, and the 22-250 is going to be needed when I get a visual on the suckers-

Back to the 25-06:
The gun is used and I believe it to be a 1970 gun-
it is in very good shape, and shows no signs of abuse-
I have given it a very good cleaning with several different chemicals- but have not tried the ammonia based products- and if anyone wants to pass on a recipe I will be glad to try that
I did notice that the trigger seems a little heavy- actually felt VERY heavy in my opinion, but when the chamber was empty, the trigger cracked nicely- that is something I will consult my "gun guy" about and see what we come up with.
The five shot groups that were fired were not tight at all, and no two shots were any where near each other- there werent on or two flyers- they were ALL flyers, and none that I would have called.......
The new scope gets mounted tomorrow and will be fired within the next week- I will definately keep you posted- thanks for the interest and suggestions!

 

[Woolecox]

If new scope and mount don't fix it;

Find a qualified gunsmith with a bore-scope, have him check the barrel and the crown. I may just be shot out or damaged. That would not be unusual for a 1970 vintage especially if someone had been shooting light bullets up around 3700 fps. If the action is good, you may have to re-barrel.