Help with loading lee 1oz slugs

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Wilson154

New member
Hello, I am new here and trying to find some help.
I have just started trying to load slugs and buckshot for a turkish ar-12. I have been casting pistole bullets for years so I decided to try casting the lee drive key 1oz slug. I used the data provided with the mold using Remington hulls, federal 209 primers, Claybuster waa12f114 slug wading and 34g of Herco. This load didn't work and destroyed my shotgun by swelling the choke and barrel. My question is what did I do wrong? I have been reloading rifle and pistole for around 20 years but reloading shotgun seems to be completely different. Any help would be appreciated.
 
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44 AMP

Staff
I had to find pics of the slugs and the gun to see, but, at a guess, I'd say that, assuming your load was right the slugs didn't compress enough to squeeze through the choke, and since something had to give it was the barrel.

Compare the lee slug against the conventional Forster type. The Forster slug has the vanes that look like "reverse rifling" on the slug body. Some folks think they are there to cause spin, but they aren't. They are there to give the slug a way to squeeze down and pass through a choke without damage to the slug or the gun.

The Lee slugs don't have that. While there is a large hollow base the side walls look pretty thick to me. Cast to bore size, with no easy way to squeeze through a choke, the damage you had is likely, and even predictable.

Out of a cylinder bore the slugs should be no problem, but chokes reduce bore diameter, and shotgun barrels aren't the thick steel of rifle and handgun barrels.

No idea the slug diameter when they drop from the mold, but I'd check that against the stated spec of the choke diameter it has to go through.

Could be the slug needs to be sized down a few thousandths for safe clearance.
 
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Shadow9mm

New member
I always understood that the tighest choke you could safely shoot a slug through was an improved cylinder. What choke was in the gun?
 
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Wilson154

New member
So my issue was my lead. I didn't realize how important that was. It seems that there would be a little more emphasis on that danger in the manual but maybe I just missed it.
 
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Wilson154

New member
Is there any good load data for this slug other than what lee provides? I have the lyman book but it doesn't cover this slug and all I have read is not to change anything on printed data. Also I have read any choke can be used with slugs or buckshot. Is that correct or should I be using a cylinder choke?
 
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243winxb

New member
I loaded my Lee 1 oz key drive slugs using Lee Data. Its suggested to use pure lead to better get the slug to release from the mold..

Listed powder charge can be reduced 10% The slug is made for rifled barrels. Fired mine in Mosberg rifled & I/C shot barrel. No issues.

Measurement of my pure lead slugs. Notice the taper to the slug.
index.php
(my personal photo)

You shotgun photos show a barrel with lots of porting? If i see it correctly?

I feel its an issure with the barrel steel used? To soft. Steel shot will damage old full choked guns. Lead should not. IMO.
 
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Wilson154

New member
I did take notice of Lee's reference to using pure lead but I didn't see anything about damaging the gun. I am unable to post a picture of the shotgun. I am using a smartphone and don't know how to do that yet. A quick search of turkish ar-12 will show the type of shotgun though. It has an aluminum sleeve that screws over the end of the barrel and holds everything together. That being said you wouldn't be able to just look at it and see anything wrong with it. The end of the barrel has swollen in the sleeve making it impossible to remove and everything has become loose and unsafe to shoot. Weather it was an issue with the steel or just my ignorance I don't know.
 
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Wilson154

New member
It looks like according to the choke information that I should have been using a skeet or cylinder choke for the slugs. Is that the same with buckshot?
 
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mehavey

New member
Again. . . I believe the OP's issue was a 1-oz slug of "hard cast" Lyman#2 hitting
the bore/choke constriction/[ob]struction after a full-speed run down the length
of the barrel.

.
 
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Wilson154

New member
I believe you are right about my lead being to hard. I will cast some new ones and try a cylinder choke. I don't know anyone in my area that reloads so I have had to teach myself by reading and trial-and-error. I guess it was inevitable that I would break something sooner or later. Thank you all for the help. It is nice to have a place to ask questions and hopefully I can avoid problems like this in the future.
 
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Shadow9mm

New member
Proper lead, and either a cylinder or improved cylinder choke. should get you where your wanting to go. In theory you could shoot the hard cast slugs through a cylinder bore choke, as it is the same diameter as the barrel, no restriction. But I would stick with pure lead and cylinder bore choke till you get things working properly.
 
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44 AMP

Staff
Here's a point to ponder, what was the actual bore diameter of the choke in the gun before it got bulged?

I have no idea what the Turkish maker uses for specs, or if the gun that was damaged actually was made to the maker's specs.

Choke measurements have changed since the early days, and in the early days of cartridge shotguns, wasn't even a specified barrel diameter. It was based on the percentage of shot in a 30 inch circle at 40 yards. This was the standard used, and the shells were paper with fiber wads, no shot cups and card wads roll crimped over the shot.

The folded star crimp came along later, and in the 1950s, plastic shells with shot cups changed the game quite a bit.

My Grandfather's "test" for a full choked 12ga was that you could balance a dime on the muzzle. Put a dime on the muzzle of a modern made full choke 12ga and it falls right in.

Both of them will deliver the proper percentage of pellets in the circle to be full choked, but the older guns, made for the older shells are tighter and by today's standards are classed as "extra full" or "super full" choked because the tighter bore actually puts a higher percentage of pellets in the measuring circle when fired with modern ammo.

I think it likely that your gun's choke was on the tight side, and what happened was you hit it with what amounted to a hard cast bullet (slug) and not the soft pure lead slug it could handle.

Between the hardness of the alloy and no way I see for the Lee slug to easily be compressed passing through the choke, the gun got damaged.

On the plus side, you reported no injuries, so, its an expensive lesson, not a tragedy.
 
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243winxb

New member
Buckshot

Buckshot- Comes in different forms. Some is plated, making it harder. Any Hard Shot deforms less on firing. A perfectly round pellet will make for tighter paterns.

Factory shells may have plastic buffer mixed in with the shot. This buffer helps keep pellets round, when fired.
Buffer can be added by the reloader, if the powder charge is reduce or follow data.
Less choke is needed with large 00 buck & buffer. The loads need to be tested/patterened.

With modern screw in chokes, start with I/C, then Mod, the full is mostly not needed with 00 or #4 buck.

https://www.ballisticproducts.com/Shotshell-Reloading/departments/271/

No experence with this company. They do have a loading manual & many shotgun items.
 
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mehavey

New member
I've bought hulls, plastic & card wads, shot, buffers, etc., from Ballistics.
They've always delivered what's been ordered, and on time.
 
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