HD shotgun defense loads.

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Glenn E. Meyer

New member
Did someone say to pattern your buckshot loads at the various distances that you think you might use it in the home?

You want to see the spread of the pattern. It is mythology to want a big spread as a substitute for aiming the gun.

Another nuance, if you have a rifled barrel, the pattern may look like a very large donut with no pellets in the center.

Bottom line, you have to practice and test the gun.
 
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natman

New member
It's all very well to say don't rack your pump gun, but that means you have to store it with a shell chambered, cocked and locked. 24/7, probably for years. I'm not sure that's a good idea.

All this "revealing your position" stuff sounds good, but are you really planning on shooting the dark form across the room without positively identifying who it is and if they are armed? Home defense is not combat.

I like to think of racking the gun as setting the proper tone for the brief negotiation about to take place. (Hands up or I shoot.)
 
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natman

New member
It's all very well to say don't rack your pump gun, but that means you have to store it with a shell chambered, cocked and locked. 24/7, probably for years. I'm not sure that's a good idea.

All this "revealing your position" stuff sounds good, but are you really planning on shooting the dark form across the room without positively identifying who it is and if they are armed? Home defense is not combat.

I like to think of racking the gun as setting the proper tone for the brief negotiation about to take place. (Hands up or I shoot.)

To address the OP's original question: 12 ga 2 3/4" 00 Buck. Plenty of power, reasonable recoil, smooth feeding.
 
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Glenn E. Meyer

New member
Yeah, I say these things because of the buy a magic racking shotgun and all will be well mantra we hear.

Yes, most DGUs are from untrained, simple incident scenarios but I worry about those that aren't.
 
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T. O'Heir

New member
"...12 gauge for 20 gauge..." Fewer pellets regardless of the size. However, a 20 will do the same thing a 12 will do with less recoil.
Buck shot is not required with either gauge. No. 2 bird shot is plenty and there will be no issue with over penetration.
"...cocked and locked..." That won't bother the gun, but you will have a loaded firearm, presumably, unsecured from curious kids. If there are any. Local ordinances will apply too.
"...Home defense is not combat..." Exactly. Neither is CCW.
 
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JERRYS.

New member
lots of concerns here, some overly concerned while some rightly so. here are a few tips.

*alarm system. this not only warns you that a breach has been made, but lets the criminal know they've been had as well as the police being dispatched.

* night lights. staged throughout the house provide plenty of lighting to "identify" the target enough to know its not Jr. or the wife.

* know your house. what are the most likely access points? where is it best to stage until the police arrive?

* training. no trainer worth speaking of will recommend that you clear ANY building by yourself.

* finally the gun. unless you have a short bbl shotgun, most distances in a home will not be long enough for pellet dispersion/pattern to matter. that said, you should still see this for yourself by walking off your hallway, then walking off that same distance outside and shooting it with your chosen gun and ammo combo.

there are more points to all of this but these are just some basics. if you haven't met these already do not worry about the other stuff. check these off your list before moving on.
 
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keithdog

New member
A lot of good food for thought here and many good suggestions. I certainly don't plan on going all Rambo in my own home. Jerry's suggestion for having night light dispersed through out the house is a great point I hadn't thought of. Thanks everyone for the feed back. I greatly appreciate it.
 
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SHR970

New member
PGO... a recipe for hardcore misses. Practice with like loads of bird shot until you can point shoot and hit the target reliably. Then practice some more.

PGO's look good in concept but are usually found wanting in use.
 
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SHR970

New member
I'll say these things based on my own experience.

Racking the pump gun will tell them where you are: The creaking of your bedroom door/ stairway/ floorboard will already do that. Racking the slide will set the tone of the next part of your "conversation". It has worked and it has failed.

Racking the pump gun will make them go away: That is a preferred outcome; if I have to discuss this part with a Homicide Detective (if used you will) I will do so through my attorney.

For my area I have a non standard house size and layout... I have a 15 yard fatal funnel....If I rack and they don't comply...well. And that goes to state laws..... I know CPC 198.5 and will keep a big dose of STFU until MY attorney speaks for me. Until then I will allow the primary evidence to speak for itself.

Moderator Glenn E. Meyer is an Attorney but he is not MY / YOUR attorney. That said heed his legal advice. His caveats are sound. Caveat #1... STFU...let a defense lawyer barred in your state speak for you; even in Castle Law States you will most likely need one because your case may go before a Grand Jury for consideration.

Ammo: Nothing exotic. Base your choice on your circumstances; Apt with thin walls vs. house in metro area. vs. house with acrage. You are responsible for what you send.

Jurors: Expect the prosecution to look for firearms ignorant people to be your "peers".

DA: Even in "friendly" territory don't bet on it; say the wrong thing and you just trashed your qualifed immunity.
 
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Glenn E. Meyer

New member
Not an attorney but a psychologist who did jury response research and a modicum of training.

Didn't mention in response to a post, skip the Shockwave, pistol grips - not easy to aim and you need to aim. For a home defense gun, the debatable shorter size of a Shockwave isn't an advantage.

To hold it at eye level, you need to extend it almost as far as a stocked gun.
 
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Rob228

New member
I use Federal Flight Control #1. I have a bunch of Hornady 00 as well but the Federalshoots just a touch better.
 
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jmr40

New member
However, a 20 will do the same thing a 12 will do with less recoil.
Buck shot is not required with either gauge. No. 2 bird shot is plenty
Click to expand...

So much bad advice there.

You want buckshot. I don't think it really matters which size, there are good arguments for 00 and #4 buck. But it needs to be buckshot. Birdshot is a poor substitute, but if it is all you have then use the biggest shot you have available.

I think 3" shells are too much of a good thing. In fact I no longer recommend a shotgun. Even with 2 3/4" shells you're talking about 300 WM recoil levels. Going up to 3" buckshot loads gets you close to elephant rifle recoil levels.

I really think an AR or even a handgun is a better option inside a home. You get 6X the ammo capacity with 1/6 the recoil in a more compact weapon. At inside the home ranges a shotgun pattern isn't big enough to be an advantage. You've got to aim just as precisely. A shotgun comes into play OUTSIDE the home at ranges from 15-50 yards. At closer ranges a handgun or rifle is as good or better.

A shotguns advantages are cheaper costs and more variety of loads that can be used. It isn't ineffective, just that it isn't as good as an AR or other compact semi-auto rifle in a small caliber. Or even a pistol caliber carbine.

If you want to use a 20 you can. But you will be working with reduced payload. And while recoil is less in equal weight guns, most 20's are considerably lighter than comparable 12's. A 20 will rock you with as much, if not more recoil than a 12 due to the lighter firearm. You choose a 20 to have a lighter gun to carry hunting for miles each day. Not for reduced recoil.
 
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JERRYS.

New member
if you're using 00 buck I'd recommend Federal reduced recoil loads. they really do make a difference to small frame shooters. for inside the home or even moderate ranges outside they are fantastic all around loads. buy a box, see how it feels shooting them and how they pattern in your gun at the ranges you are likely to use them inside your home.
 
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bamaranger

New member
two cents

OK, here goes.

Three inch, 12 ga buckshot loads, turkey loads or varmint loads, will kick the snot out of you, especially from a short defensive shotgun. For some folks, the standard 12ga/ 2-3/4 " load is a heavy kicker too. If you foresee the good wife, your daughter or capable children using your SD shotgun, a 20 ga maybe a viable option. In those instances, a carbine or pistol caliber carbine maybe even better.

-Do not count on the racking of a shotgun to frighten or run off an intruder or adversary. Such mental gymnastics my leave you unprepared for when they do not.
-Likewise, I cannot agree with leaving a round chambered and the safety on as a ready condition for the shotgun. A "cruiser ready" storage will still provide instant readiness,but is far safer from accidental discharge. I completely believe a fully loaded firearm cannot be left unsecured or unattended. Once you get the gun in your hands, chamber a round. Racking a shotgun may reveal your position, but.....
-Announcing one's presence MAY be exactly what you should do...those stealthy footsteps in the hall could be family sneaking in late or your girlfriend, etc. Challenging an intruder (from cover and concealment) is arguably more defensible AFTER a shooting too.
- I have mixed feelings on birdshot. Really small shot, say #7-1/2 and under, especially from light claybird loads, does not do so well much beyond 7 yds/21 ft. Inside of that, it can be devastating. If I could guarantee my SD shooting would be that close, and I absolutely had to limit penetration due to adjacent dwellings like and apartment, townhouse, or motel, I would opt for birdshot. I see birdshot having a very narrow niche in the SD shotgun.
 
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cslinger

New member
In what little experience I have with shootings with a shotgun from a large metro PD area. (Ancillary not actually shooting people. That is not a bucket it list item. I am talking about knowledge of actual shootings). I have gleaned the following.

Birdshot of any kind is a NO GO. In many cases it’s damn near a superficial wound.

Buckshot of any kind out of a 12 gauge was pretty universally a fight stopper damn near immediately.

I don’t recall any 20 or other gauges but many 20 gauges kick like a SOB just by virtue of being a bit smaller and lighter in many cases.

I don’t recall any slug incidents but I have to imagine an .72 caliber oz of lead would be fairly devastating to darn near any un armored living thing.

Basically my takeaway was any and all common buckshot loads out of a 12 gauge were pretty decisive if they make contact. So my take is get some low recoil / flight control stuff and don’t sweat the details beyond being able to make hits.
 
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