Has the Past Eight Years Been Bad for You?

[RidgwayCO]

Flamesuit - ON, Fire Extinguisher - READY...

I keep reading about how horrible the past eight years have been under President Bush, and I must confess that I just don't see it that way.

9/11 - Unforeseen by just about everybody. But there hasn't since been another terrorist attack on the US (when everybody was sure there would be another attack, and soon). That doesn't mean the terrorists won't try to affect our upcoming elections (as they did successfully in Spain), but up until now the government has done a good job protecting its citizens.

Hurricane Katrina - Devastating (both to New Orleans and Bush's reputation). But exactly when did local preparation and execution of emergency processes become the responsibility of the President of the US? Why did the governor of LA and the mayor of N.O. (whose job it WAS) get a pass? And why don't we hear much about Mississippi, which was hit just as hard (if not harder) than LA?

Civil liberties - I keep reading how Bush and Cheney have "gutted" the Constitution, but how? My Constitutional rights seem as firm as ever (especially after the Supreme Court's recent 2nd Amendment decision). And I don't think it's a constitutionally-protected right to call terrorists in foreign countries via the telephone in order to coordinate attacks on the US. The Constitution exists as a limit on government, not a suicide pact.

The economy - The US slipped into a very short recession immediately after Bush was sworn into office in 2001, which indicates it couldn't possibly have been due to his policies. Since the recovery from that recession, the US economy has been the envy of the world. And no, we are not currently in a recession (not that the media isn't trying to talk us into one).

The War on Terror - The intial fighting in Afghanistan went as well as anyone could have hoped (remember, the Russians fought there for ten years before having to concede defeat, and their supply lines were short compared to ours). The main fighting in Iraq was over quickly, but we didn't seem well prepared to fight a religious-based insurgency. The surge (which Bush intially resisted but was finally convinced of by John McCain and General Petraeus) worked out well and has led to the current plans to remove all US troops within the next couple of years. So, you can say the initial military plans were inadequate (hardly unusual when fighting wars...), but Bush was flexible enough to try different tactics. The result is looking like victory, when defeat was being demanded by political critics at home.

There are other examples, but I guess these are my main points.

Your comments are appreciated.

 

[gdvan01]

Nope.

Got a new job, new wife, and a brand new house.

 

[JWT]

Nope. The markets down, gas prices are up, house value is down. But...life is still pretty darned good.

The media won't paint anything positive because that wouldn't reflect badly on their favorite villian (Bush).

 

[Harry Callahan]

We're all fine here. Everything was fine until about '06 when the Dems took over Congress. Don't get me wrong. I disagree with Bush on how he has handled alot of things but life is good for me and mine.

 

[RedneckFur]

Economy. I've got less money than I did under Clinton, and under clinton I was a poor college student who worked a full time job to pay my bills and tuition. The cost of living makes it near impossble for me to do anything but simply "get by" I'm a young man, and in the last year I started some small retirement accounts to help me out in the future. They're loosing money steadily. I guess I should have listend to those AM radio kooks and bought gold.

Civil Liberties? Remember the patriot act? I think that says it all.

War on Terror? I'm not really sure about it, as little news comes to me from Afghanistan. I do have a few freinds in the Canadian army, and they've each seen a tour in Afganistan, so I know that they're still fighting the war on terror, even if our leader is playing "I'm better than my daddy" in Iraq.

Katrina was a natural disaster. You cant blame distasters on anyone but nature, and you cant blame not being prepared on anyone but yourself. Bush & Co. get a free pass on this one.

 

[MeekAndMild]

Has the Past Eight Years Been Bad for You?

Not at all. Things were much worse for us in the 90's.

 

[Don Lu]

Gas prices up (car and home)
Value of my home down
Groceries are through the roof
ammo prices have trippled if not more

...all in all, my life is fine, but these factors (except ammo prices) have made a huge impact on many americans. Just the fact that we on this board, have enough extra money to pay for internaet shows that we are doing okay..but we can't down play the effect of the last eight years on many, many americans. Not placing blame on anyone, but just answering the question based on the time frame in OP.

 

[Danzig]

As a Soldier, I am personally affected by the decisions made by the government more than some.

I think that the past eight years have been terrible. I have been away from my family more than I have been with them. My marriage has suffered badly as a result. I know that my children have to feel my absence. In the long term I know that it won't be good. This is my third time in Iraq..and my fifth time overseas in the last eight years.

I realize that when I enlisted I swore to serve my country and I am proud to do so. But when I enlisted it was with the trust that my service wouldn't be abused. I am prepared to give my life to defend my country, my fellow Americans, and our liberty...but being asked to sacrifice my marriage and my family is crossing the line into abuse.

Since the start of the Iraq and Afghanistan conflicts the number of divorces, emotional problems, physical ailments, and other relationship problems have skyrocketed out of control. I have had two people that I know personally die over here.

The economy has gone to pot. Our national debt has skyrocketed out of control. Gas prices have gone through the roof, resulting in higher prices for everything else.

Our military pay raise is going to be 3.5% next year but inflation is higher than that. So the truth is that we are doing the same or more..and effectively getting less.

We are more hated by other nations than we were nine years ago. And while on the whole I don't give a rat's butt about what the other nations think of us, Some standing in the world is necessary just to function as a society.

I think that last eight years have been horrible.

I do not think that the previous eight years were any better.

What does that mean? The Democrats and the Republicans have both done a lousy job of running our nation. And they will continue to do so as long as so many of you keep supporting them.

 

[Erik]

"Has the Past Eight Years Been Bad for You?"

As a whole, no, despite the challenges along the way.

 

[dipper]

The past eight years have been fine for myself and my family.
Daughter graduated law school and is gainfully employed by a very good firm (more money in my pocket).
Son graduated undergrad and is getting ready for med school.
Wife's job is good, I'm doing OK etc. etc.

It's a free market--gas is up but I cut back some on traveling--not going to whine about it and just cut back and buy less---I saw this coming and traded the SUV for a Mazda 5 so I did OK--while some were purchasing the big trucks and SUVs at "bargain" prices, I passed and got something better on fuel.

Didn't get sucked into the housing craze, while some friends took advantage of the easy money and mortgages and purchased houses way bigger than what they needed and for more than they could actually afford and at prices higher than what they are worth ---we didn't so I'm OK there.

We actually cook everyday and don't eat out much like many of our friends do.We try to shop wisely and watch what we buy---went to the farmers market the other day and got enough FRESH vegetables and meat ( lamb and beef) to last us for 10 days or so for about $100.00---that's just for the wife and I.

I guess if you don't let society tell you what you have to drive or that you need a two story brick home with four bedrooms when you only have one child or that you shouldn't have to cook etc. etc. you can still be happy.
I guess if you watch your money and make decisions based on what you make and not on what you can borrow, you can still be happy.

I guess I'm saying if you take ( here comes the two dirtiest words in the english language) PERSONAL RESPONSIBILITY for your actions you can still be happy.

 

[RidgwayCO]

RedneckFur, you noted the Patriot Act as a self-explanatory negative. Why? Specifically, why was/is the Patriot Act a bad thing from your perspective?

And Danzig, thank you for your service and sacrifices. As a "cold warrior" with many a night spent away from family, I sympathize. I have former high school students of mine who've also served in Iraq/Afghanistan (one with more than 8 tours as an Army Ranger), so I'm not totally ignorant of what's happening there.

 

[astromanluca]

It's impossible for me to gauge whether things have been better or worse for me since Bush took office. When he was elected, I was a junior in high school. My life has changed so much since then - going through college, studying in China for a year, meeting tons of new people, and now having a real job with a salary, that it's hard for me to say whether things have been good or bad. Furthermore, right as the economy started to go bust, I got my current job, where I make way more money than I ever have before.

All I can go on is my parents, who used to both do freelance work. By its very nature, freelance work is inconsistent - sometimes there's a lot of it, sometimes there's not much. These ups and downs, though, have definitely shown more downs than ups in the past several years, mostly in the last 3-4 years. Part of this is because of forces at work in their specific market - my mom used to have a long list of clients, but now the industry in which she works has become consolidated into a handful of megacorporations, and some of them have begun outsourcing her type of work to India. That's probably not Bush's fault; buyouts and outsourcing have been ramping up since the Clinton years as China and India become more industrialized and the Internet speeds up communication between us and them.

However, for people in the military or who know people in the military, things look very different. Try arguing in support of Bush to someone who lost someone in 9/11, or in Iraq. I doubt you'll find many who think he's been just fine. No one is required to care about things that don't affect you, but you can't really say that Bush has been totally okay given how many young people he has sent out to die. Just because you're not personally connected with any of them doesn't make it okay.

 

[Shane Tuttle]

Gotta say that life in general is much better than 8 years ago. New home 4 years ago, new shop out back with a couple of Volkswagen projects and equipment. I have had the privelage in having more guns and reloading supplies now than I ever have. Solid job, great wife. Still able to speak English without being persecuted.

9/11 - Unforeseen by just about everybody. But there hasn't since been another terrorist attack on the US (when everybody was sure there would be another attack, and soon). That doesn't mean the terrorists won't try to affect our upcoming elections (as they did successfully in Spain), but up until now the government has done a good job protecting its citizens.

True. But, have you thought of this? What if the federal government was operating like the Founding Fathers intended? If the Consitution was truly followed, law abiding citizens wouldn't have to surrender their right to carry on an airplane. What would have happened if 200 possible passengers had been armed?

Hurricane Katrina - Devastating (both to New Orleans and Bush's reputation). But exactly when did local preparation and execution of emergency processes become the responsibility of the President of the US? Why did the governor of LA and the mayor of N.O. (whose job it WAS) get a pass? And why don't we hear much about Mississippi, which was hit just as hard (if not harder) than LA?

My following statements is from memory and my own opinion:
The prep and execution failure was due to the local and state government. Years and years the Army Corps of Engineers, IIRC, has begged and pleaded on funding for proper levees. They may have initially received the funds, only to have the funds diverted to "more pressing issues". The rest is history. The only time it becomes the responsibility on a federal level is when the governor of said state makes an official request for federal aid. Bush acted accordingly. He wanted to go in, but was denied by both the gov of Louisiana and the mayor of New Orleans. When they finally did request for help, it was basically too late to react accordingly.

They got a pass basically because I think the media found the perfect way to place a major disaster on the Bush Adm. The general public just listened and agreed like your basic "sheeple" would. Brainwashing. It's as simple as that.

I know I'll offend quite a few people here, but I honestly call it as I see it:

I believe the culture of people IN GENERAL, NOT ALL, in Louisiana wanted an immediate hand-out. They wanted big brother to provide everything for them. In the midwest, the general mindset is to deal with the situation at hand by helping each other out. If we got help on a federal level, great. If not, we will make do without. One of many examples is many homes were flooded so bad that they were ruined along with the land. Instead of crying for a trailor, we found strangers to take us in and dealt with long commutes to work. I guess what I'm saying is that we rolled up our sleeves instead of opening up our hands for debit cards.

The other front is it's easy for the media to display a huge, colorful storm to scare citizens. It isn't so easy to show what damage a flooded river can do, also.

Civil liberties - I keep reading how Bush and Cheney have "gutted" the Constitution, but how? My Constitutional rights seem as firm as ever (especially after the Supreme Court's recent 2nd Amendment decision). And I don't think it's a constitutionally-protected right to call terrorists in foreign countries via the telephone in order to coordinate attacks on the US. The Constitution exists as a limit on government, not a suicide pact.

I don't believe in the Bush Adm. "gutted" the Constitution. I do believe that they have abused it and was not active in preserving it. The Patriot Act is one example of argument. It's claimed by the Adm that they only listen in on suspected terrorist enablers, not law abiding citizens. This is a heated debate. I know I'm not associated with terrorists, so I'm not concerned. But, who's providing the "check and balance" that the govt. isn't?

If the Adm is so concerned with our BOR, then why haven't they attacked/repealed any ridiculus gun laws?

The economy - The US slipped into a very short recession immediately after Bush was sworn into office in 2001, which indicates it couldn't possibly have been due to his policies. Since the recovery from that recession, the US economy has been the envy of the world. And no, we are not currently in a recession (not that the media isn't trying to talk us into one).

We may not be in a recession, but I think our state of the economy isn't on solid ground. There's many items that the current Adm could have done to help stabilize the economy. However, the biggest misconception about a president that the general public can't get through their thick heads is that the president isn't the point man for our economy. Until people wake up and smell the coffee of this fact, he will be branded of this responsibility whether he/she likes it or not. To be honest, I don't think our economy is the envy of the world right now. India comes to mind for me at the moment based on observation.

As far as the War on Terror: To keep from really lengthening my post, I have to say one of the main problems with it is the Rule of Engagement. This needs to drastically change. The other is we're not in the business to be nation builders for free. The way we went in was good for what Rules we were under. The exit strategy should have been drastically different.

 

[Saab1911]

Inflation is back. That's my biggest gripe. I stayed away from the housing
bubble, I'm sure some others can't say the same.

War in Iraq was bull crap. The idiots that masterminded that crap should
be shot for treason.

Other than that, life's been uneventful, and uneventful is good. I don't want
drama in my life. If I wanted drama, I'd pay $7 for a matinee ticket. By the
way, that matinee ticket used to cost $5 eight years ago.

 

[RidgwayCO]

Tuttle8, thank you for your thoughtful reply.

I agree with you about the basis for our economy (and maybe even about India...) but my point is that the US possesses the largest economy in the world (almost $14 trillion GDP, more than the next four nations combined) . Also, our economy is growing at an annual rate of more than 3% according to the most recent data. I know most western European nations would be wildly happy with 2%...

And to put that 3% annual growth number into perspective, 3% of $14 trillion is $420 billion, which by itself would place 23rd among the GDPs of all the nations in the world.

 

[dipper]

We can and will argue about the war in Iraq forever---was Bush right?, was he wrong?? Depends how you look at it.

Most economic scholars agree that the economy of the present President is directly related to and fixed by the previous President.
That is, that Bush's economy in his 1st term at the minimum was a result of Clinton's work-- the economy of the US is not like your average household and sometimes things take years to take affect and show results---good or bad.

You can't blame Bush for 9/11 ---not even remotely.
Experts agree that the plan was in the works for years--up to 3 years-- not months.
Not blaming Clinton so hold your water!!
BUT, the plan was laid and training was done under Clinton and carried out under Bush--just the way it is.

So, President Bush was hit with a economy in downfall and a terrorist attack about 8 months into his 1st term--that's the facts.

History will tell us if Bush was right for going into Iraq or not---we can argue all we want and both sides have valid points---for now.

Economy--two words---free market---as it should be.

Katrina? 90% of the problem was at the state level---and they re-elected that---let's be kind---um, questionable governor.

Civil liberties?? Yep, there are real concerns there to be sure--I think most of what's going on is scary.
As long as many Americans are fearful and are willing to give up anything " to be safe", we are heading down a path that won't be easy to backtrack on.

Dipper

 

[Shane Tuttle]

As a Soldier, I am personally affected by the decisions made by the government more than some.

I do want do make clear that I do thank you for your service. There's not much greater honor than sacrificing yourself for our country. There's one thing to gripe about the state of our country and do nothing about it. It's a different ball of wax when you state your grievences and also have a rifle in hand. My belief is that you definitely fall in the latter. So, I say the next item out of respect, not with malice.

Did you really believe since the dawn of America that you would not be abused by the government when you enlisted? I'm preaching to the choir here, but in these times serving is voluntary. Back when my father served most were drafted. There's got to be a point of diminishing returns here. You obviously have been through more than enough to be told you have served our country with honor and dignity. Come home and don't be ashamed. Save your family.

Again, I meant what I said with utmost respect.

What does that mean? The Democrats and the Republicans have both done a lousy job of running our nation. And they will continue to do so as long as so many of you keep supporting them.

I agree. But, when I see an actual candidate that would turn the tide back into preserving our nation, I must consider. There's not one single politician out there that fits to all of my ideals. However, if a candidate comes along that would do more good than harm overall, I'm taking what I can get.

If I wanted drama, I'd pay $7 for a matinee ticket. By the
way, that matinee ticket used to cost $5 eight years ago.

Heck, I think it's $8.50 here...and this is the midwest. But, I digress...

Our economy may be growing at more than 3%, but doesn't do any good if the cost of living is exceeding the growth.

I agree with Saab1911. Inflation is something to watch closely. It does need to get under control as well as other factors of the economy. Imagine what it would be like if the oil companies were broken up similar to the phone companies back when.

Imagine what trade would be like if we repealed NAFTA. Brazil is begging to trade with us. They produce SUGAR based ethanol which is much cheaper and more efficient than CORN based. The latest I heard was Brazil can deliver refined gasoline meaning ready to distribute to gas stations at $.89 a gallon. 89 CENTS. By the time a company would get paid for delivery, the guestimated cost for gas would be at about $1.50-$1.65.

Hog farmers in my area are losing their butts because the price of feed has quadrupled in the past year. Not double or triple. It quadrupled. Why? Because of the bull crap corn based ethanol craze. And one other thing. The basic calculation for a farmer to grow corn to make one gallon 15% ethanol based gas equates to burning about a gallon of fuel. What sense does that mean if the end expected result is to become less reliant on foreign oil?

 

[Shane Tuttle]

Katrina? 90% of the problem was at the state level---and they re-elected that---let's be kind---um, questionable governor.

AND the mayor of New Orleans, IIRC. Goes to show how some people just don't get it.

Good post, by the way, dipper...

 

[shortwave]

+1 Dipper and Tuttle8, my thoughts exactly

 

[Hkmp5sd]

Has the Past Eight Years Been Bad for You?

Nope.

Make more money than ever before. Have more guns than ever before. Have fewer wives than ever before.

Only thing that is worse is my Dachsand's back surgery didn't work (not sure that I can blame Bush for that either) and she is now paralyzed for life. Time to buy her some wheels.