hard to stay concealed some days

wayneinFL

New member
Chalk it up to the digital age. Lots of people carry holsters on their belts these days, carrying devices, and now no one notices holsters any more.

Hell, half the time they wouldn't look up from their own phones long enough to notice you had a gun anyway.

in fl incidental exposure isnt a problem....

It isn't supposed to be. But there isn't any case law on it yet, that I know of. And when you attract the attention of law enforcement, you invite the opportunity for someone to misinterpret the law.

But I really haven't had a problem with it. Usually I pocket carry. On the rarer occasions where I do carry on my belt, I just don't do anything where I'm reaching, stretching, lifting, running, dancing, swimming, etc.
 

baddarryl

New member
I normally carry a G19 IWB and could easily conceal a G17 or 1911 the same way. I carry mine about 3:30 so the butt of the gun doesn't protrude as much as say at 4 when bending over. If I must bend over I will often 1 knee it and stay as up right as practical.

When I need deep concealment for my job which includes manual labor I switch to rear pocket carry a Kahr CM9. Never an issue with that one at all.

I am mindful of printing, but not nearly as much as when I first started carrying. No one is paying attention to anything out there but their stupid IPhones.
 

jughead2

New member
concealed

better half was on a plane a few years back when this guy had to stretch to put his bag over head. when he sat down she looked at him and grinned said hard to keep concealed sometimes isnt it. he just looked at her with a sheepish grin. "air marshal"
 

dayman

New member
It happens to me on a fairly regular basis (It's hard to maintain a composure when you're chasing a 3-year-old all over God's green earth), but I'm lucky enough to live in a open carry state, so it doesn't really matter.

IWB might hold your gun a little closer in to your body and make it harder for your shirt to catch if it does ride up.

Up here it's already cold enough for jackets which helps, but maybe a vest? Heavier fabrics tend to "stay down" better.
 

jimbob86

Moderator
If you can't go IWB.....

I typically carry a small 9mm single stack with a belt slide holster, T-shirt tucked in to my trousers (denim shorts), and a Hawaiian shirt as a cover garment. I buy my cover garment shirts extra big and long, and I can raise my arms straight up and not expose even the bottom of my holster. The only thing more effective would be a trench coat. !!!

I could tell by feel that the shirt was wrapped up above the gun.

A gust of wind blew the shirt up over my gun as I was loading and maneuvering the timber.

These two instances would tell me that your Carry rig and Hawaiian shirt in combinaton, are not, in fact, anywhere near as effective as a trench coat .....


As others have noted, OWB requires a really long shirt ..... and maybe a weight on the hem of it, too .....

If your shirt keeps getting tucked up behind the gun, then your belt and holster are not keeping it close enough to your body. ...... that, and something (grips, holster, your (under and/or cover shirt(s), something) are not slippery enough to let the shirt fall back down when you straighten up ...... the sticky Pachmayr grips I had on my Ruger sp101 would cause my shirts to climb them in this manner....

If you are going to do a lot of bending over at the waist, get a smaller gun and move the gun aound to the 3:00 position so it does not stick out when you bend over .....
 
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jimbob86

Moderator
You'd be surprised at how few people really PAY ATTENTION and of those few, most are either cops or other CCW carriers.

.... unfortuantely, some of those "CCW carriers" are not of the sort that are bothered to do so legally- and those are exactly the people you don't want to draw the attention of. The cops and the robbers will both have a clue what to look for .... that is why they call them "shoot me first vests" .......

I've added Hawaiian shirts to the SMF vests and the giant oversized hoodies as stuff to watch for .....
 

doofus47

New member
Happened to me in the grocery the other day. The lady behind me in the check out line made a comment about the weather and then told me that I was printing when I bent over.
I was IWB with my Ruger SR9c (10 rnd magazine) wearing a tshirt and sweatshirt that covered my waist, so... I"m not sure if she just happened to be ogling my fine choice in Grambling sweatshirt attire or if I was seriously showing when I bent over.
I spent a few minutes in front of the mirror trying to figure that out after I got home.

First time for everything, I guess. I'm sticking with the original setup for now. I'll just bend from the knees. It's better for me anyhow.
 
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tirod

Moderator
Agreed, the use of "cover" clothing makes it even easier to ID a carrier. Having traveled in some circles with others who were Fed LE, it was easy to study. Buffed out musculature, crew cut, tactical wear, and a fanny pack in front made it obvious.

Same for all the Woolrich shirts, Hawaiian shirts, photographer vests, etc. If it's nice weather and there's just one guy in the area with a vest out of season, hmm. Are their other clues? Black duty high tops, or is the belt especially heavy construction, a tad too wide, and it's not from Walmart?

I was at work when I came in the front door, a customer was reaching across the counter to pick up a heavy box when his sweater rode up and exposed his OWB holster. He quickly tugged it down - but what caught my attention was the fact it was heavily boned and looked exactly like what he intended to conceal - a gun. Are we doing ourselves a favor using a skin tight holster that actually gives things away?

A gun guru once pointed out that if it's concealed carry, you don't expose your gun anymore than you would expose yourself. Give it the same attention.
 

JohnKSa

Administrator
Are we doing ourselves a favor using a skin tight holster that actually gives things away?
The issue is that if you intend to conceal you must conceal the holster too, unless it is completely disguised to look like something else.

If concealment is intended and the person carrying intends to do anything other than walk around without bending over, reaching up or sitting down then even a relatively concealable OWB holster requires a cover garment that reaches below crotch level.

The rule of thumb is 6" below the lowest point that reveals any recognizable part of the gun or holster.
 

Don P

New member
Some thoughts from Mas on this statement, in a email from him
In Wyoming we have "Constitutional Carry".
I'm copying the email because at the bottom it states to share or bookmark.
“CONSTITUTIONAL CARRY”
Posted: 11 Oct 2013 09:10 AM PDT
For longer than anyone reading this has been alive, the state of Vermont has allowed its citizens and its visitors to carry loaded, concealed handguns in public with no permit required. The Michael Bloombergs of the world fear that such a practice will make the proverbial blood run in the streets…but history has shown us the reverse. Every year, Vermont is one of the LOWEST violent crime states in the nation. In recent years Alaska and then Arizona adopted the same thing. So did Wyoming, though that state limited permitless carry to Wyoming residents. Whaddaya know: rivers of blood haven’t swept through any of their streets, either. I’m happy with these results: an old New Englander, I believe “if I ain’t broke, don’t fix it.” Allowing good people to carry guns without permits, and merely forbidding convicted criminals, adjudicated mentally incompetent people, and others to do it, has worked out surprisingly well.


One suggestion, though. Many on the gun owners’ civil rights side have come to call this “Constitutional Carry.” Having been in a lot of different kinds of fights over the years, I’ve learned not to give advantages to my opponents, or leave openings through which they can hurt me. I believe referring to lawful permitless carry as “Constitutional Carry” gives the prohibitionists such an opportunity.


Why? Any fifteen-year-old kid taking high school Civics 101 knows that the arbiter of Constitutional law in this country is the Supreme Court of the United States. In two recent decisions which are landmark victories for our side – Heller v. District of Columbia and McDonald, et. al. v. Chicago – SCOTUS has confirmed that the right to keep and bear arms in the Second Amendment of the Bill of Rights is indeed an individual right. However, both of those decisions have also made it clear that the states have the right to regulate the practice.


Which means that while the right to keep and bear arms is indeed Constitutional, to be technically correct the right to carry without a permit in the above-named states flows from the wise majority in their state legislatures, and not directly from the Second Amendment.
Words mean things. If we use the wrong terms, we compromise our credibility, and our factual credibility is our strongest weapon in this polarized debate. That’s why I for one do not describe permitless carry as “Constitutional carry.”

If we need a term with a catchy ring to it, we can simply invoke the peaceful valleys of the Green Mountain State and very appropriately call it … “the Vermont Model.”Share or Bookmark
 
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tirod

Moderator
And the caveat to cover garments is that they generally aren't the typical tight styling which comes just past the belt line. Therefore, the chances of getting made are about the same. Guys wearing loose fitting jacket's and shirts down to their knees aren't common in western society. The 6" guideline becomes a fashion faux pas.

It's not a easy situation. Exactly what pushed holster makers into IWB, a further escalation in carry to hide more of the gun higher on the body. The offsetting disadvantage is a bigger waistline in fitted pants like denims, cargos, etc.

Some have moved to the adjustable waistline slack, but that's not an option for others. So, if IWB is chosen, you are prompted to keep carrying just to take the slack out. That may not be what the user wants or needs, it tends to limit their options. Semi unintended consequences.

There's no easy answer if the user intends to get the firearm quickly into play. That brings up a lot of other issues, like the actual odds of that, confrontational awareness, etc. Hence the use of off body carry, too.

We tend to copy the style used by the most appreciated role group, but if they are duty gun carriers, it can tilt the playing field with their different set of assumptions. They don't get arrested for inadvertently flashing a gun, they get promoted for judicious display arresting a perp. Our role models in concealed carry may not be our best choices. Therefore, what is marketed to them for duty carry may not even be suitable for concealed carry in a civilian world.

An HVAC repairman or auto parts counterman would be forced into deep carry methods in order to prevent alarming their primary customers, or a corporate ban on carry at all. Plus the work requirements in lifting, crawling, etc make it difficult, too. A copier repairman will get short shrift showing up with an exposed shoulder holster in a bank administrative area. What works in a suit coat sometimes won't work with just a thin white poplin shirt. And yet leaving the customer's downtown location after dark isn't all that safe.

What some can get away with is another's critical loss of job for another. Sometimes the bar is a lot higher. The Secret Service might get away with carrying an Uzi in a shoulder holster walking a parade route, for others, it would be a call out and throw down. Lots of women don't have the capability to conceal a Flashbang holster, others are amply endowed.

There's no one answer or rules drawing a line in the sand. You do whatever it takes to make it work, and that takes resourcefulness and imagination. Not the conservative mindset that forces conformity.
 

madmo44mag

New member
I have flashed my CCW more times than I can count.
Bending over, reaching up or to the side, windy day, ect....
I would have to say that 98% of the people around me were oblivious to it.
I carry IWB and with my 45acp OWB and the only people that every said anything or gave me a look were other CCW carriers.
(You know them when ya see them: long shirts, slight printing, bulging pocket)
IMHO folks are just to caught up being the next victim (lack of situational awareness) to notice.
 

Brit

New member
Sitting outside our local Supermarket, yesterday. I saw my Sons Wife (plus 3 year old, 1 year old) arrive and park. Big Jeep, she had to first pull the baby carriage out of the back, then lift the baby out, fasten him in, then the 3 year old.

Extremely vulnerable at this time, back to the world as she did all this lifting and tugging. A young guy walked up to her, and asked her something, she shook her head, and headed for the store.

When she had her cart (with two steering wheels!) and was starting her walk around, my Wife and I met up with them. Lots of hugs and kisses!

I asked her what the guy said to her, she said he wanted money. She is Brazilian, so she answered him in loud Portuguese, he walked away!

She felt better when we showed up, I always carry. Tee shirt, Florida shirt hanging out side (Retired mode!) one of the big young guys will walk her out.
 

Snyper

New member
I automatically assume any adult with their shirttails out are carrying, and most especially if it's a large loose fitting shirt

That's the standard "uniform" of most of the undercover cops I've seen in the past 20 years
 

btmj

New member
I automatically assume any adult with their shirttails out are carrying, and most especially if it's a large loose fitting shirt

Actually, it is rare that I see a young man (under the age of 30) with his shirt tucked in... Untucked shirt seems to be the fashion de rigueur for the under-30 set.
 

btmj

New member
When I started this thread, I was really hoping to hear from the folks who carry full size pistols and revolvers in belt holsters.... I know there are a lot who claim to do so.

Instead we mostly heard from people who carry small pistols and snub 38s, either IWB or in a pocket.

So how about the guys who use a sig 220, or Glock 21, or 1911, or SW 686 as their daily carry? how do you maintain an active life with frequent bending, crawling, climbing, in the wind and rain, and still avoid flashing ?
 

JohnKSa

Administrator
So how about the guys who use a sig 220, or Glock 21, or 1911, or SW 686 as their daily carry? how do you maintain an active life with frequent bending, crawling, climbing, in the wind and rain, and still avoid flashing ?
I don't personally know anyone who carries a full-sized gun. But then I live in TX where intentionally failing to conceal is not legal.

From what I can gather based on the comments I have read here and on other forums, the people who carry full-sized pistols fall into one of 3 categories.

The smallest category is made up of those who carry a full-sized gun and make a real effort to conceal.

Probably the largest category consists of those who conceal a full-sized gun but don't really care if they print badly or occasionally expose the gun. Primarily folks who live in areas where open carry is legal.

Then there are the folks who simply carry openly.
 

Dwight55

New member
When I started this thread, I was really hoping to hear from the folks who carry full size pistols and revolvers in belt holsters.... I know there are a lot who claim to do so.

I carry that full size all steel 1911 and from 1 to 3 extra mags (depending on destination, . . . how much extra ammo).

When I decided to carry, . . . I had to alter my wardrobe, . . . alter my style of dress. So does just about everyone else.

I live in central Ohio, . . . similar weather to Mo. . . . which allows me about 10 months out of the year to wear a long tailed shirt, . . . vest, . . . sweatshirt, . . . light jacket, . . . sport coat, . . . or some other "cover garment" and not look out of place. The other two months are polo shirts, . . . alligator shirts, . . . double tee shirts (one tucked in, . . . one hanging out).

I also occasionally wear a shoulder holster, . . . under a short sleeve shirt with snap front.

I also occasionally wear an IWB cross draw, . . . tucked inside my shirt.

Dedicate yourself to doing it, . . . and you will do it. I believe it was old Will Rogers who said something to the effect: If you believe you can or if you believe you can not, . . . you are right.

Go to the Salvation Army or Goodwill store, . . . buy some different clothes so you can practice without breaking the bank, . . . get a good full size mirror, . . . check it out, . . . you CAN do it.

May God bless,
Dwight
 

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Don P

New member
The smallest category is made up of those who carry a full-sized gun and make a real effort to conceal.

Probably the largest category consists of those who conceal a full-sized gun but don't really care if they print badly or occasionally expose the gun. Primarily folks who live in areas where open carry is legal.

Then there are the folks who simply carry openly.

Here in FLA accidental exposure is not an infraction of CCW law. Thankfully the law was added when we tried for open carry and that was the compromise.
I carry a 1911 either full size or commander size and do my best to keep it concealed and avoid the problems that could arise from a general complaint to LE from john Q citizen and being stopped and questioned. On occasion I carry a XD 4" barrel. All using OWB carry using a good firm gun belt and a quality leather holster
 
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