Handgun Waiting Periods.

[Chipperman]

Let me begin by saying that I am not trying to start a war with this question. I am just interested in a rational discussion.
How do you all feel about a waiting period of, say 48 hours, for purchasing new handguns? If you are against this idea, is it because:
1. You just can't wait to shoot that new gun you just shelled out $xxx for
2. You are afraid that this would represent another small step in chipping away our RTKB
3. You don't want the gov't in your face
4. You want to kill your spouse, boss, etc as soon as possible
5. Other reasons
Thanks for your opinions.
Chipperman

(My apologies to the moderators if you feel this should go in the political section.)


[This message has been edited by Chipperman (edited February 14, 2000).]

 

[dvc]

How would you feel about a 48 hour waiting period after you've purchased an automobile?

If you are against this idea, is it because:

1. You just can't wait to drive that new car you just shelled out $xxx for

2. You don't want the gov't in your face

3. You want to go get drunk and drive under the influence and kill pedestrians and other drivers as soon as possible

4. Other reasons


See how stupid your question is?

 

[Svt]

How would you feel about a 48 hour waiting period to use a new computer you just bought?
Because:

1. You can't wait to type and read anti-gun laws.

2. You are afraid that this would represent a small setp in chipping away at your cyber rights.

3. YOu don't want the gov't in your face.

4. You want to break into your local bank's firewall or find your wife's online bf.

5. Other reasons.

HELL, WHY NOT JUST TAKE AWAY ALL OUR RIGHTS???? Geez

 

[Ankeny]

Chipperman:

The rational answer is one and two. You are going to get your butt burned on this one.

 

[Chipperman]

I was hoping for a real discussion here. The numbered answers were given as possible examples, and as jokes to add some levity. If you can't tell the difference between the two please don't reply.

I will be more specific about my intent in asking the question. I have had discussions with people, both pro-gun and anti-gun, who thought it might be a good idea to have a short waiting period. The aim was more to try to discourage "crimes of passion" than to make life dificult for law-abiding gun enthusiasts. Some states will impose a waiting period if you do not have a license, which could potentially deter the "crime of passion" person who did not already have one. Does anyone here think that there is any merit to this period, or do you all think that any law potentially regulating handguns is stupid and therefore not worthy of discussion?

[This message has been edited by Chipperman (edited February 14, 2000).]

 

[dvc]

"Crimes of Passion" ? Man. Ha ha ha. Only a fool would buy a firearm legally with intentions of commiting a crime.

Do you have no common sense?

Stupid waiting periods inconvenience the law-abiding, not the criminals.

Senario:

Lets say I'm participating in a IDPA match on Saturday, and Friday I head of to the range to practice some. During the practice session, my pistol breaks. I don't have another pistol to use as backup.

So I rush off to the gunshop with money in hand to buy a new one to use in the match on Saturday.

With instant check, I've got my new gun,
and I'm back at the range breaking it in for
the match on Saturday.

With your 48 hour "crimes of passion" cooling off period (how stupid), I'd have to sit this match out and wait 2 months for the next one and HOPE to be able to get on the roster.

Thats an inconvenience as far as I am concerned.

Another senario:

Someone signs up for a CCW class and pays the required fee and goes through the required 8 hours of classroom time. The next day is the live fire qualification. But one problem, they haven't bought a gun yet. They wanted to ask the state certified instructor first.

The instructor names a couple brands/models and the person heads off to the gun shop to buy a gun for tomorrows "live fire qualification". (that they've already paid money for)

With instant check, they've bought their gun, gone home, read the manual, became familiar with it and got everything ready for the live fire qualification the following day.

With your stupid "crimes of passion" 48 hour cooling off period, they wouldn't be able to qualify. Their money would be wasted. They'd have to wait until the next qualification class (the following month) and pay another $35 to qualify just because of your stupid
48 hour "crimes of passion" cooling off crap.

This adds a month to the time that it takes for them to get their CCW permit. A month is a long time. Thats a serious inconvenience.

There are many senarios that I can list. We havent even gotten into the attempted rape
senario... or the attempt on your life senario... or the attempted burglary senario... or the...etc.

[This message has been edited by dvc (edited February 14, 2000).]

 

[ak9]

When you need a gun, you neeed a gun. How about the riots out in LA a few years ago? More then a few gun store owners opened their stores and as I remember more then a few people turned a blind eye to the rules (five day waiting period). It is no crime of passion if you go buy a gun to off some guy or gal. That is premeditated murder. Now if you have it on your person already and you catch some guy in bed with your lady, well then we are talking crime of passion.

 

[Chipperman]

dvc--"Crimes of Passion" ? Man. Ha ha ha. Only a fool would buy a firearm legally with intentions of commiting a crime.
Do you have no common sense?
-----------------
I completely agree with you that only an idiot would legally purchase a firearm to then use it in a crime. That's just the sort of stupidity that this period proposed by some people would try to avoid.

Incidentally, I never said I was in favor of the period, but only wanted to discuss it. So please dont refer to it as "your stupid cooling off period"

---------------------------------------------
dvc-- Stupid waiting periods inconvenience the law-abiding, not the criminals.
-----------------
Again, I agree that it would be an inconvenience to law-abiding citizens, but then again many laws are. As for it not inconveniencing criminals, that would depending on who the criminal is. If it was an impulse-buy to commit a crime it may deter them. If it is a carreer criminal then, of course, it would not. Most of those people would not legally obtain the firemarm anyway. That is one of the many reasons that the whole Glock cataloging system will not work, as has been pointed out in other posts.

As for the scenarios you list, they are both situations where someone could be inconvenienced by the law. As you said, there are many more that could easily be listed, not the least of which would be someone in fear of their life. In those cases obtaining a firearm quickly could save a life rather than end one.

dvc- I am curious whether you think there is any situation where the law could be warranted, or do you think that the "crime of passion" individual would just go for the next available weapon (be it knife or whatever)? I suppose there would be some in each group.

By the way, how many states presently impose a waiting period regardless of a license? I think CA FL HI IL MD MA RI WI, did I miss any? From what I've read the period varies from 48 hours to about a week. (The 48 hour period that I picked here was just arbitrary)

You mentioned the mandatory training session as one of your scenarios. How many states require this? Are they the same states that already have a waiting period?

Does anyone else have anything to add to the discussion?

 

[larry_minn]

How about this. I drive about 150 miles to a gun show. I find a gun I want to buy. The dealer may live another 40 "OR MORE" miles on the other side of the show site. I either have to pay a local FFL dealer and UPS shipping $$$ or drive close to 200miles in order to pick up my gun. Odds are I would just say forget it. "Which is the real reason for this junk laws." One would think even the most dense person "politician" would realize if a person gets a permit and has guns the idea of buying another in a "fit of rage" is dumb.
Local man going though the Big D. He was buying a Ruger from a member of the Police Dept. His "EX" went to the judge and said he was trying to buy a "clean" gun to kill her. He had many rifles,shotguns,pistols, etc. The judge bought the idea. "here is your sign"

 

[John Marshall]

I think we might be coming at the "crime of passion" rationale from the wrong end. Suppose the person with evil intent already has a gun and the victim needs some form of defense. A waiting/cooling-off period isn't going to do the victim any good at all.

------------------
If you're not a little upset with the way the world is going, you're not paying attention.

 

[Puddle Pirate]

In Indiana, we have a 2 week waiting period before buying a handgun, rifles and shotguns are cash and carry. It was originaly enacted to give the gov't time to perform a background check. It wasn't a "cooling off period." It was just to give the LE's time to determine if the person buying it was allowed to do so under the laws. Naturally it is waived if the person has a CCW. We are trying to get this law repealed, because with the instant checks now possible, it has no real purpose other than to annoy anyone who doesn't have a CCW, and it could cost someone thier life. In example, a woman is threatened by her ex-boyfriend, she goes to a gun shop to purchase a defensive weapon, but is told that she cannot be allowed the right to defend herself, because some liberal namby-pamby wanted to turn a semi-legitamate background check law into a ill- thought out "cooling off period." I'm sure you see my point

------------------
"The best we can hope for concerning the people at large is that they be properly armed." -Alexander Hamilton, The Federalist Papers at 184-8.

 

[markd]

48 hrs??? Your lucky because here in California it takes ten days to get any firearm.

markd

 

[Piggy]

Your working as a bouncer on a Friday night, trying to put yourself through graduate school and you are forced to politely remove some jackass who just popped down 10 or 15 shots of tequila. You ask him politely to leave and tell him why, and state the local statutes that prohibit public drunkenness etc. He refuses and gets mean with you. You respond as you always would by getting him in a good wrist lock and discreetly escorting him out of the building. Then you find out his daddy's a big man in the Hell's angels and has plenty of illegal guns for his kid to use. Tomorrow's Saturday and you are scheduled to work again. There is the distinct possibility that after work, you may just have company in the parking lot. You need to protect yourself, but Feinstein et al. say you must wait 10 days before you can procure the means to do so.
The preceding scenario happened to me (not in Kalifornia however) and I was forced to buy a 12 guage flare gun for protection (it was better than nothing). Fortunately there were at least 40 other customers on my side on that one Saturday night so the aforementioned jackass went away with his tail between his legs. Nonetheless, this waiting period BS does nothing but hurt people who need protection urgently. It can be a nasty world out there, but then again, how many politicians today come from poor families where they had to work as bouncers, janitors, security guards etc...all occupations where you work at night and may have a legitimate need for a sidearm.

 

[mrat]

Chipperman,
I used to look at gun laws as you are doing (I think) as a rationale person, until I realized what the anti-gunners are doing. The anti-gunners are chipping away at our gun rights little by little, they are not satisfied with "rationale" laws, the want the total ban and confiscation of guns. Here in Cali we are no longer able to buy "assault weapons", "junk guns", or "hi-cap magizines". The anti-gunners have found a new evil gun to go after...."sniper rifles" Now we can only buy one handgun a month. Are you seeing a pattern here, I remember when we sarted out with "hey it is just a cooling off period". Now I REFUSE to try to bargain with these anti-gun morons. Unfortunately in Cali we are trying to close the barn door once the horse got out. All I can say is don't let it happen in your state.

 

[Ala Dan]

Greetings; Here in Alabama most FFL dealer's
don't perform the "Insta Background Check";
due to the fact the State has a 48 hour waiting period anyway. This will give
the government time to check you out;
before you pick up that new shoot'in
iron.

Best Wishes,
Ala Dan, N.R.A. Life Member

 

[WESHOOT2]

Best answer -- own more guns.

 

[Horny Toad]

markd,

TEN DAYS?!?! I wish! For every permit (license) I apply for, two reference letters are sent out, and after they get back to the police dept., the chief can basically sit on the permit as long as he/she wants. Ten days would be a dream come true for me. Six weeks minimum to get a new handgun permit in my country (NJ).

Horny Toad




------------------
--NRA Life Member--

 

[Gunslinger]

Chipperman I think you are getting some of the more "colorful" responses due to many gun owners frustration with what is one of the more misplaced laws there are among many misplaced gun laws.
However I am gong to choose to believe you are sincere in simply seeking to discuss the law and exchange perspectives on it.
I believe that with any gun law or any law the first thing one must ask themselves is if the law was in fact needed and does it serve any purpose. Many of the laws in this country serve no other purpose than to provide media posturing for the legislator that proposed and/or supports the law. They are simply catering to a vocal and often misinformed segment of the population in order to gain favor (votes) with that segment. Unfortunatly currently gun laws seem to be over burdened with these vote geting laws due to media hysteria.
Viewing waiting periods from that perpective do they prevent violent crime? The answer, obviously, is no they do not. If a person has reached the point where their "passion" is truly going to compell them to kill there are far too many ways to do this than to be forced to use a gun. If one is truly intent on killing ask yourself if you honestly believe they are going to storm away from the scene saying "you know in X number of days after I get a gun I'm going to go back and kill that SOB". In that passionately heated moment they will find the means to kill or do harm. During my years as a police officer I learned that we as humans can become very creative when the desire to kill becomes too over powering to resist.
In the late 70's a Missouri legislator proposed a law prohibiting the sale of a single beer to an individual from a package liquor store. Three beers became the minimum amount that could be sold. The stated purpose was because people buying a single beer would drink it on their way home and therefore be drinking and driving. The result was people who before bought a beer to drink on the drive home were now drinking three beers for the same trip. The law worked exactly as the politiican wanted. He was elected to another term based on his strong stand against drunk driving.

Members, when this was first posted by Chipperman I looked at his profile and learned it was his tenth post here. Had it been his first I would have been skeptical as to his intentions. Although I did not do a search to see the nature of his previous post it is possible he to is simply seeking other perspectives to learn more about gun laws in order to draw his own "informed" conclusions.

 

[johnbt]

I will be for a waiting period for gun purchases as soon as there is a waiting period and/or a license required for alcohol purchases. John

 

[FUD]

Horny Toad,

Six weeks to buy a gun in New Jersey? It's more like six MONTHS! I don't know what town you live in, but I had to go to first pick up an application at the detective division -- which could only be picked up on Tuesday mornings. They wouldn't accept it back on the same day so I had to wait another week to turn it in.

Then I had to schedule an appointment to bring in my two references so that they could fill out the paperwork in person -- I wish my police department mailed out the letters like your's does (try getting your friends to explain to their boss that they want to take off in the middle of the day so that they can act as a reference for someone who want to buy a gun).

After that's done, you have to schedule another appointment (sometimes 2 or 3 weeks out) in order to be fingerprinted. After they have your prints, they do (I'm told) four background checks (FBI, State Police, etc.) but they do only one check at a time instead of all four at once -- so they wait for an "all-clear" from one place until they start the next one.

In my experience, six months was about the norm with once taking close to 8 months. I couldn't believe the difference when I moved down south and I was able to walk into a gun store and buy a gun without any waiting (after I showed them my CCW permit -- something else that was impossible to get in Jersey).

------------------
Share what you know, learn what you don't -- FUD.