Handgun Deer

[shortwave]

It also can wear on you as you get older, I seem to watch more than shoot and am happy doing that.

I know what you mean Guv.

For the last 5-6yrs, there has been many times I'll go out and sit in my stand all day long and watch deer all around me. Never lifting my choice of hunting tool. Just watching and enjoying natures beauty.
Too, I know when the trigger is pulled, the work begins. Guess I got lazier the older I got as well.

At the end of the day when I walk in the house, mama usually says, "you didn't see anything all day?"
My reply used to be " yea I saw plenty, just didn't feel like shooting anything."
Now I just reply "old Indian can't sneak up on em like he used to".

I always take a fat doe or two for the freezer, the rest of the time is spent hunting a buck I've previously scouted out. I hunt him hard and will let all lessor bucks walk.

I say all the above to say this... these deer I enjoy watching today playing around my stand and the bucks I let walk today would be targets 15-20 yrs ago and they would not walk.

 

[TimSr]

I think maybe you had unrealistic expectations if you thought certain weapons would make him drop like a rock, and die instantly. He obviously didnt run far if you watched him expire.

"Knock down power" should be abolished from all hunting vocabulary. You made a pass through lung shot. The only thing higher velocity might have bought you is more bullet expansion. He bled out, just like a bow shot. An arrow is not measured in "knock down" ability. A 12 guage slug might have sped up the process slightly by making a bigger wound. A .357 may have slowed it by making a smaller hole. The only time you get an shock benefit is if you hit havy bone and the animal absorbes more of the energy.

I'm not a big .357 fan for deer, simply because many people do not respect its limitations. They do not penetrate heavy bone well. I took a lot of deer with my Ruger Redhawk .44. The first deer I took I used the old semi-jacketed hollow point. It got the deer, didn't exit but bled heavily, and ran 40 yards before dying. What remained of the 240gr bullet weighed 148gr so I switched to cast SWC after that, always got an exit wound, thankfully, but often had to track them beyond 50 yads. Todays XTP bullets are a huge hunting improvement of the old semi Jacketed HPs. The right bullet is the key to handgunning.

When the .454 Casull was legalized in Ohio it immediately became my first choice. The 240gr XTP-MAG has super expansion, always exits, and I only had to track one - a pass through double lung that did not hit any solid bone.

Its never easy watching a deer expire, not should it be. It shows a respect and love for the animal you have taken. Its human. Anyone who enjoys watching an animal expire is sick and should seek help. I have no problem firing a second shot into a downed animal for humanity purposes.

Most in Ohio use a 12 gauge slug. My .454 is every bit as effective or more so in my opinion other than the 12 guage is not as easily deflected by twigs and briars. Your .44 is not a 12 guagem but should perform well when loaded with the right bullet. Its a big for a pistol, but you cannot expect rifle performance from it.

 

[mwal]

Congrats on a nice deer. A 12 ga slug would of done the same thing. We took 4 deer this last week all were double lung shots from 11 to 77 yards only one dropped 3 ran from 40 to 100 yards before expiring. The one that dropped hit shoulder blades and lungs. I have been hunting deer with slugs since the 70's and they do not have knock down power. I am even less impressed with the new sabot slugs as they put a smaller hole in the deer. I also hunt a Rifle zone and it is still not a certain thing that a deer drops from double lung or heart shot regardless of weapon. Main difference is that high powered rifle cause much more damage from hydrostatic shock due to velocity and cause much more tissue damage and meat loss. IT's unfortunate to watch the death struggle but it is part of hunting the only thing you could of done was done a follow up shot to the nervous system IE spine or head.


Mwal

 

[madmo44mag]

I use to hunt primarily with a Ruger SBH 44 mag with a 10 inch bull barrel.
I never was impressed with the performance of hollow point rounds.
I like my prey to hit the ground dead with no follow up shot needed.
Once I started loading 300 grain lead round noise bullets and pushed them at 1200 fps the deer dropped like hit with a howitzer.
This round got great penetration and turned lungs and heart into jello
With the 10 inch barrel, shots out to 50 yards were very effective.
Out past 50 yards the bullet dropped like a stone.
Now any hunter should know any lung or heart shot there will be a few moments until the animal expires; they basically suffocate from a lack of oxygen or blood flow.
I will caution that the use of 300 + grain bullets in a 44 mag takes a lot of testing to dial the round in.
It is very easy to compress the load WAY past safe specs.
Just to add: white tail deer here in central Texas are pretty small unlike other parts of the country.
I'd would not have an issue with this round on larger deer but may push the round a little harder.
Ruger revolvers have proven to me to be the toughest built.
Like a Timex watch "will take a licking and keep on ticking"

 

[SteelChickenShooter]

You know, you guys seem to be well experienced hunters with good heads on your shoulders. The buck went about 6 feet. No tracking, no running away. A number of posts must have been right when I guess I just didn't know what to expect. Sounds like the 44 Mag did it's job in all the right ways and I'm just too much of a novice to realize it. This was my very first deer. I do have Hornady 240gr JHP/XTP rounds and will load up using those. Maybe I'll get the chance to try one on a nice doe.

 

[336A]

I bought and used a Marlin 1894SS .44 carbine in 2005 and used it a few times for deer. I was way less than impressed with it's performance using Win 240gr JSP. I had originally bought as a woods bumming/fould weather gun, then ammo and component prices went throught the roof The Win 240gr JSP were poor performers, they were accurate but even when launced from the 20" barrel showed no signs of expanding much. I shot a spike horn with that combo right through the pump house at 40 yards. The buck ran 75yards right into some thick stuff. Sure enough when I dressed him out there was a nice .429" through the heart, and a exit which didn't appear any larger than the entrance wound.

When I went to where I hit the deer there was no sign indicating a hit in the snow. I picked up his tracks and followed him about 25 yards before I found any blood. The blood I did find was very small, almost as if someone used a spray bottle, all I was finding was very fine specks of blood. When I finally found him he was bleeding only from the entrance wound. I shot at and hit a doe in some thick golden rods and couldn't find her because of this. Later while helping a friend track his buck that he shot in the same vicinity I found what the coyotes left

The next time I used that rifle was with the Hornady 240gr XTP-HP and a Max dose of H110. Shot a nice 4pt in 2010 at all of 30 yards, the deer traveled 150 yards, but I couldn't get another shot due to the dense woods I was in. Everytime I moved to put a finisher in him he would get up and move a little more right into some thicker stuff. I ended up having to sit there and watch him expire, I was pretty heated over this. I have since sold that rifle and replaced it with a 20GA shotgun. I know darn well and good that I won't have the same performance on deer with it, and it fits the role that I had intended for the 1894 even better.

I found that the 30-30 is more effective on deer than the 1894 .44. In every instance that I got a deer with my 30-30 there was never a lack of sign showing a good hit, and the deer traveled no more than about 30 yards. So there is my experience using the .44 mag on deer.

 

[cnimrod]

good point on distance

growing up in rifle zones most every deer I shot was at distance and expired out of site - first time I hunted in NJ and shot a small buck with a slug I EXPECTED it to drop immediately. At 25 yds I was amazed when it just jumped a little and calmly walked another 25 yds away and stumbled down. As I gathered my things - it took a minute - I was amazed again when it tried to get up! Decent hole through both lungs - just the nature of the beast.

for those of us with "The Hunters Heart" (great book by Pederson?) every kill is tinged with a little sadness which is no doubt emphasized when you see the animal die.

That said, put a big enough hole in the right area and you've done your job.

 

[22-rimfire]

That said, put a big enough hole in the right area and you've done your job.

This is why I stepped up to 480 Ruger. I wanted a "bigger hole". Not saying that a 41 mag or 44 mag isn't good for the job, just I wanted something with a bit more oomph. People frequently don't like it when I suggest that you get something larger than 357 mag. But for me, I am comfortable with this suggestion. Folks don't have to pay any attention at all to what I say.

The same recommendation applies to some folks that think a 9mm, 40 S&W or 45 ACP is enough from a handgun. I go straight to 10mm with a semi-auto pistol.

 

[SteelChickenShooter]

I agree with 22-rimfire. I'd likely be more satisfied with greater power. That's why I have been researching guns & ammo in the 460, 480, 475 range. Funny he mentions a 10mm Auto too. Because I had the exact same thought about what auto to buy next if I ever do. I saw on TV an account of Alaska troopers investigation a moose kill. The guy used a Glock 10mm. Right away, I said to myself that 10mm might be the right choice for me too. No- not the Glock for deer hunting. Of course the big revolver for that. The Glock would be a home & carry gun. It is not unusual for very large bad people wearing heavy coats to prey on vulnerable people here in the cold parts of the country. I've sometimes questioned the effectiveness of the 9mm. A 10mm Glock could be a very good choice. But I'll do a little more research on that topic. Something like comparing ballistic table data to some of the magnum loads.

 

[RodTheWrench]

You'll never forget the first deer. Mine was 20-odd years ago, and I still remember it like yesterday. Little forked-horn muley in Oregon, not quite 30 yards away. I opted for a head shot at that distance with my 270 and there was very little struggle. When I walked up on him, his eyes were wide open looking at me, but there was nothing behind them. I just stood there for a minute, feeling mostly sad but elated at the same time. I thanked both the deer and God for the meat, then got to work.

If you don't feel anything when an animal's life is ended at your hand, there's something wrong with you and I'd rather not have you in my hunting party.

I understand the reasoning behind using "more gun" in an attempt to kill more quickly and humanely, but you're mistaken if you think it will remove all of the struggle and the inherent emotion attached to the act of taking the animal.

 

[black mamba]

Two years ago I shot a large, mature southern Illinois buck at 60 yds with Hornady SST slug. 300 grains at 2000 fps from the muzzle and a perfect double lung shot right behind the shoulder and clean through. This is WAY more powerful than any handgun cartridge, yet the deer ran 125 yards before stopping, swaying and tipping over. Took about 8-10 seconds for him to fall, but he was dead when I got to him (maybe a full minute). I was shocked at how far he ran, and even more so when I opened him up. The entire chest cavity was mush, tremendous devastation, yet it took him 10 seconds + to die. Sometimes they are just tough.

 

[shortwave]

^^^Have had the same experience with the 1oz. shotgun slug shooting through both lungs and taking out very top of the heart. More than once. Maybe not a full 125yds but closer to 50-60.
Still, rather mind boggling when you think about it.

 

[Steve in PA]

I've taken several deer with a .44 magnum handgun, none required a second shot. Farthest one went was about 20-30 yards. The shot was about 75 yards and the deer was dead by the time I walked up to it.

I've seen deer hit with a .30/06 run for quite a ways before piling up.

 

[Deja vu]

I have killed many deer with a 357 mag carbine and it does well with flat nose ammo. I load 158 grain flat nose to about 1900 FPS and it works well.

I have killed a single deer with a 357 magnum j-frame but the range was very close and it was all I had available at the time.... long story

This is my opinion here. I feel that people worry too much about the gun they use and not enough about how much they practice. My now deceased grand father killed many deer during the great depression with a 22lr from a single shot that now sits over my mantel. That is another long story too.

I feel that most any gun is good enough for deer so long as the shooter is experienced and able to stay calm.

 

[Brian Pfleuger]

Folks have some interesting and unrealistic expectations of what firearms will do to deer.

I've shot and seen shot a whole lot of deer, of various sizes, at various distances and with everything from archery equipment to handguns shooting rifle cartridges to shotguns, rifles and muzzleloaders.

By far, the most common reaction is to run some distance, fall down and flop around for a few seconds before expiring.

That's what happens unless you disrupt the CNS. It's hunting, it's unavoidable.

It doesn't matter, on average, if you're using 50 ft-lbs, 800 or 3,000.

The amount of "energy dump" in the animal is irrelevant. You have the permanent wound channel and you have hydrostatic shock. Hydrostatic shock is non-existent at handgun (non-rifle cartridge) velocities. You want two holes with a handgun, not "energy dump".

 

[Noreaster]

I just took a decent size doe with a Win 240SP white box using 7.5 inch SBH. Deer jumped up and took off. No blood trail at all. I found it about 40 to 60 yds away in a swamp, dead. Small entry and no exit. Never again. I ran out of my 225 copper HP load and just figured the 240SP would be fine. I've always had good luck with the Hornady XTP. Considering going to a heavy hardcast with a wide metplat.

 

[USCS]

Sorry you had a bad experience Steel Chicken, look into Speer Gold Dots. I have gotten good results from them out of my .357.

 

[SteelChickenShooter]

No shortage of well stated thought provoking posts in this thread.
Thanks to all. I was re-reading after some time away from home to get caught up and would like to draw attention to post #26. That sort of agrees with my questioning how well the 44Mag will serve my hunting expectations. I have a 20ga shotgun well suited for deer as well as a 30-30.
There are other reasons I like the handgun and may consider one larger.
1) I can carry it in the truck going to, hunting, and coming back without casing or locking. Just step out of the truck and ready to go.
2) I can hunt deer in the woods without carrying a long gun. It's easy to move through the pines with a handgun in a chest holster instead of carrying a long gun. If snow or drizzle, the handgun is easily covered under a larger coat to keep it out of the weather.
3) If dragging a dear, there's no added load of a long gun along with it.
4) A long gun requires casing, uncasing, loading and unloading- just not so with my handgun.
Others probably have more or better ideas, but these come to mind for me. Thanks again for all these great replies. I'll mull them over as I think about where to go from here. Maybe a BFR with a larger cartridge like a 45-70. I had a conversation with my local dealer and that's what he suggested. Certainly worth taking a look.

 

[cnimrod]

Foot pounds are foot lbs lbs\\\

bullet type may be more the issue. I posted a while back on my experience with Federal Fusion ammo in my 30-30 Hit a doe broadside at 50 yds and the bullet fragmented and did not exit. Yes it did its job and I found her but left no blood sign. I prefer an exit hole - went back to Remington Cor-lokt

just saying

 

[silvrjeepr]

Over the years, I've come to use bullets that dispatch the animal as quickly as possible. I sacrifice some blood shot meat sometimes, but it's been worth it for me. Based on your comments, I will probably think twice about taking a close shot with my g20 as I had intended to do this year.