Handgun caliber evolution - Or its seeming absence

[44 AMP]

Evolution is a fair word, as an analogy. But not perfect.

Remember Nature's only measurement for success is each generation surviving long enough to reproduce. And nothing else.

With a given cartridge, or firearm, it is somewhat more complicated, but still essentially the same overall process.

New ideas emerge (mutations), get tested in the environment (the market), and if they are good enough to survive they continue. If they are actually a superior product (dominant mutation?) they will flourish.

Do this long enough, and they become the dominant species.

 

[simonrichter]

Those are cartridges, not "calibers". "Caliber" is a unit of measure equal to 1/100th of an inch. Cartridges, on the other hand, are used in firearms.

So if someone hands you a pistol, stating it was a, say, .40 caliber, would you...

a.) ... expect it to utilize any cartridge with a 0,40 inch-diameter bullet OR

b.) ... expect it to be made for the .40 S&W cartridge in particular?

The pragmatic use of language is oblivious of formal definitions. Reckon we all here know that caliber in a narrower sense can refer to the diameter as such, yet it is not wrong to equal "cartridge" and "caliber". Language is changing, matter of fact.

 

[Skans]

Handgun cartridges have evolved considerably. Just because 9mm and .380 have been around for years doesn't mean that today's 9mm and .380 resemble the weak ball ammo cartridges of your granddaddy. Today's 9mm+p+ and .380 defensive cartridges make concealed carry easy, with the power of a .357 or .38 special revolver respectively.

 

[simonrichter]

maybe I didn't really convey the point I wanted to make, so one more try: What I wanted to point out is that it seems that there IS a kind of new generation of low-recoil, minimal weight, long range, optimal penetrating, high cap rounds (5,7 x 28 / 4,6 x 39 / 6,5 x 25 cbm / .22tcm...) , but obviously the mass market (more or less) ignores them or they never even made it to civilian use at all.

It is to say that for all these calibers an energy transfer rate (due to tumbling after impact) and wound channel etc. much higher than for 9mm is claimed. So a lack of the much-trumpeted "stopping power" can't be the reason either, can it?

 

[Jim Watson]

Since most of the named cartridges (except for the .22 TCM) were developed for military and militarized police use and incorporate armor piercing bullets, MY government does not trust me with them. The 5.7 FN is available in denatured commercial form, but I have seen no case studies of its use. Except of course for murder by the Traitor Major at Ft Hood in 2009.

I read a lot of enthusiastic internet reports on the TCM, but they do not include actually shooting man or beast.

There were two programs to develop Super .32s for European armed government employees. The emphasis was on penetration equal to 9mm P with less recoil. See 7.92x24 VBR and 7mm Penna

Then there was the .224 Boz. Derived from 10mm Norma necked down to .22, it would do about all that could be done with a .22 caliber handgun. Its British backers seemed more concerned with keeping it out of civilian hands, especially those American gun nuts, than fielding it.

 

[s3779m]

Must be a real hard market to crack. The 327 magnum is not a new caliber but as a new cartridge ( hope I used them two words right)I believe its future is in doubt. IMHO I thought it had a real good chance to make it. The longest post I have ever read on the firing line had to do with this cartridge, so people did know about it, just did not take off.

 

[johnwilliamson062]

It's historical because it was the first repeating rifle issued by a Government (Switzerland on January 8, 1869).

May have been the first repeating firearm, but it wasn't the first repeating rifle. About 75 years late on that.
Even that is arguable as about 15,000 Henry rifles were issued during the civil war and about 50000 Spencers. The Henry rifle was never close to a standard issue arm such as the Vetterli.

As Jo6pack noted, all those light fast bullets of the last fifty years or so were designed to penetrate armor. They don't perform any better against unarmored targets. It turns out only a few countries can afford body armor and they don't usually fight each other directly. Even those countries deal with a lot of expiration issues. I read awhile back about half the kevlar and similar soft armor vests in the US LE are past their 5 year expiration and have significantly degraded protection.

The last really "new" cartridge that has established itself was the 40 S&W.

Even there I think 40 SW will fade in the future. 40 SW is only really suitable for "shooters," of which there are a lot on this forum. If you are shooting less than 150 rounds a year, as most LEO in the US, it is a terribly difficult round to control, especially if you don't have the brute strength to He-man it. Get rid of LEO support and the round fails. With the advances in 9mm bullet design I think things will tend towards 9mm. Already a lot of neutered 40 being used and as guns are replaced I think 40 will slowly fade.

I wrote something about the advent of energy weapons, but Sabre wolf covered all my points more eloquently.

The 327 mags failure has somewhat surprised me, but I think it failed b/c Ruger never gave it a chance. How is there STILL not a 327 LCR? A hammered LCR before the 327?

GAP was a great idea, but I don't think you will ever see another successful cartridge with a firearm company in its name. Even GLOCK can't force a caliber without other manufacturers using it also. Maybe with heavy .gov support, but that isn't going to happen with a pistol round any time soon. Trademarks and patent protection has tightened a lot to reduce the parrallel compatible cartridges solution.

Make it legal to put a folding stock or wrist brace on a handgun without NFA hassle and you will see more powerful cartridges take off. Most casual shooters cant handle more than a 9mm+P+. I'm not talking about slow fire from a static position at the range. I'm talking shooting 1+ round per second while moving or shooting from irregular positions. I can go months without shooting a handgun and pick-up a 9mm and rapid fire a mag pretty well one handed laying on my back shooting to my right under a car. I can't do that with a 40 SW. Add a brace a la wrist rocket and I might give it a try.

 

[B.L.E.]

"Caliber" is a multi definition word, used in several different ways, depending on context.

Bore diameter, expressed in decimals (1/100 inch) is most common.

Gunmakers list cartridge names as "calibers".

Various legal forms use cartridge names, and call them "caliber".

And caliber is also used to describe the length of artillery barrels, expressed in multiples of bore diameter. The main guns of Iowa class battleships are referred to as 16" 50 caliber rifles.

And caliber is also used to indicate an undefined measurement, as in "the caliber of the opposition".

Truly a multi purpose word.

And, if I'm not mistaken, it originates from the Arabic word for mold, used to cast bullets.

You can also "gauge" the opposition.

 

[Model12Win]

I disagree with whoever said modern 9mm +P+ performs the same as .357 magnum. SORRY! Not in this universe buddy, ain't gonna happen.

I think the next big shift in handgun cartridges probably will be caseless/electrically fired rounds with bullet sizes/weight/velocities close to traditional metallic cartridges but with all the benefits of caseless technology.

 

[barnbwt]

Lack of evolution? Nah... Haven't you seen the quantum leap of boundless, mind-blowing innovation known as the 9mm "+P"

Oh, wait, there's a plus-P-plus, now? Oh, do go on! What will they think of next?

TCB

 

[44 AMP]

You can also "gauge" the opposition.

yes, so you can determine their caliber....

 

[Guv]

If your gonna compare the +P+9mm with the .357Mag then it should be some kind of higher pressure 357, Buffalo Bore, Corbon, etc.

 

[44 AMP]

...doesn't mean that today's 9mm and .380 resemble the weak ball ammo cartridges of your granddaddy. Today's 9mm+p+ and .380 defensive cartridges make concealed carry easy, with the power of a .357 or .38 special revolver respectively

Oh, but they do "resemble the weak ball ammo..." because that same "weak ball ammo" is still available on the market, and still widely used.

Conversely, only the specialty ammo makers are producing loads close to the rompin' stompin' .357 Magnum that Granddaddy used. Original .357 loads threw a 158gr bullet over 1500fps from a long barrel revolver, and I know of no 9mm Luger load that will match that in an equal barrel length (no matter the actual length of barrel chosen).

 

[gyvel]

Handgun cartridges have evolved considerably. Just because 9mm and .380 have been around for years doesn't mean that today's 9mm and .380 resemble the weak ball ammo cartridges of your granddaddy.

They're still just variations on a theme.

 

[B.L.E.]

I think the next big shift in handgun cartridges probably will be caseless/electrically fired rounds with bullet sizes/weight/velocities close to traditional metallic cartridges but with all the benefits of caseless technology.

Hmmm, caseless ammo. After much thought, I am beginning to realize that I own the handgun of the future.

 

[DannyB1954]

I agree with the electrically fired cap. It could be a piezo electric trigger, so it wouldn't need batteries.

 

[simonrichter]

I agree with the electrically fired cap. It could be a piezo electric trigger, so it wouldn't need batteries.

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Osa_(handgun)

 

[arizonaopa]

another factor to consider

With all of the other points brought up, did anyone consider the human physicality side. It seems to me that the larger the caliber, the fewer people that can effectively use it. Now, I do know some small people that are fully capable of firing a .50 round from a Desert Eagle, however, they are few and far between. Possibly, the old standards allow a person to also pick their weapon caliber based on their size. Therefore, why invent a caliber that only a few people can use. Seems that it would be a waste of time and effort.

 

[B.L.E.]

I predict that the handguns of the future will shoot ammo loaded in brass cases and ignited by percussion primers being struck by firing pins. Why? Why not?
Caseless ammo? Daisy tried that and now both the rifles and the ammo for them are collector's items.
Remington introduced a rifle that used electric primers and it's in danger of being orphaned today, and the primers, if you can find them, cost something like $150/1000.

It's like inventing a car that walks on mechanical legs instead of rolling on wheels. I'm sure it can be done, but why would you want to do that? Wheels are simple, wheels are efficient, wheels are cheap, wheels are reliable and trouble free. Anyone who thinks he will revolutionize automobiles by inventing a walking car totally underestimates just how terrible wheels and tires are not.
It's the same with percussion primers and brass cartridges. Percussion primers work, are reliable, simple, and cheap. Brass cartridges not only protect the propellant from contamination and moisture, but also seal the breech during firing. Breech loading actually was invented before the metallic cartridge, but sealing the breech was always a big problem until the metallic cartridge was invented.

 

[thedudeabides]

I think that 9x23 is one of the best pistol calibers to come out in the past few years. Trajectory, recoil, power, and how hot you can load because of the thick case make it a truly "modern" cartridge.

It's also only found in a handful of 1911s.