Gun show vendors

[Tom2]

I can live with it

I sometimes see that stuff at gunshows too. Not usually big old flags displayed but alot of Nazi relics in cases. Along side US and other relics. Just a bunch of stuff that G.I.s brought back as captured souvenirs, in most cases. Have not ever encountered a vendor that acted as if he was in support of fascism or anything. If they acted out in that way, I think people would tend to avoid their displays. Someone brought Randy Weaver to a couple of gun shows a few years ago, around here. He was shaking hands and hawking books. Was a curiosity to see the man in person, but I don't recall him drawing a crowd! I made no attempt to approach him myself. Don't know how successful his cross country gunshow tour was. Someone who is blatantly on the fringe like that, seems to be politely ignored at the events I have been to. Actually the guy with the flags should have displayed a rainbow flag, and a hammer and sickle flag, for true balance. IF I buy a German/Jap. WW2 gun, I view it as, a trophy! They were the baddest of the bad, and we kicked their ___! Now I got your gun, Fritz or Yoshi! HA HA!

 

[Fremmer]

I suppose that a vendor has the right to display whatever he or she likes. And 12-34 (as the consumer) can buy from someone else, and can then inform the vendor about the reason for the same. Simple as that.

 

[choochboost]

I'm all for protecting our rights. I also believe a person has the right to be a member of the klan in this country, but I also wish a bomb would go off at one of their rallys. I don't have to be happy about the vendor with the Nazi memorabilia, but I agree he has the right to be there. I don't like it but that's only my personal opinion. The Bible says, "all things are lawful but not all things are beneficial." The point I'm trying to make is that it potentially hurts our gun rights!

 

[DnPRK]

In this time where political correctness runs rampant, there are too many people who are spring-loaded ready to take offense at anything. Was the guy displaying the flags trying to recruit new Nazis or confederates? No, I didn't think so.

Some of you people need to grow a thicker skin...

 

[ffxmike]

I've read through this, and the best I can figure is that there are a surprising number of members on this board that fully support the first amendment.

so long as what is being said doesn't offend them.

DnPRK said it right...People need a thicker skin.

If a lot of people in this country had their way, we would overwrite every piece of our history, good or bad, that someone may be offended by. When that happens, we will learn that hard way that those who forget their history are doomed to repeat it.

 

[choochboost]

So you don't think we could willfully modify our behavior for the sake of protecting our gun rights from the antis? Capt. Charlie has this as his sig line: "TFL Members are ambassadors to the world for firearm owners. What kind of ambassador does your post make you?" Those are wise words, and I think the same logic applies to how we represent ourselves to the general public.

 

[garand_shooter]

Are you serious? So Nazi collectors are on the same page as the Holocaust Museum? I'll give you a chance to let that one marinate in your head for bit. Who's being absurd now?

Reread the whole post, slowly this time, and try to grasp what I said. I mention military and military history collectors. I mention Confederate and Nazi flags being legitimate examples of historically significant pieces. I mention that collecting such items does not mean you agree with what they once represented. I can see easily how a Canadian can think every American is a gun loving redneck, when you see every military collector, who happens to own something representative of the Nazi's, as a Nazi or sympathizer. I never mentioned a 'Nazi collector', but since that is how you took it, I think your mindset is quite clear. As for how they represent gun owners, we should destroy stereotypes through education, not propogate them through prejudice. Which of these are you doing through your actions?

 

[eng2]

I went to a show with a good fiend of mine (a black male) we saw a smiler vendor. he was obviously offended by the KKK/Nazi stuff I didn't even notice. I made the comment some people collect that stuff. he looked at me like I had two head's. bottom line it offends people on a higher level then some of us will ever know it also alienates people and makes us look like extremist. I know some people will say it's a free world I know but I still wish they didn't chose a gun show to sell raciest memorabilia historic or not.

 

[roy reali]

Re: Choochboost

Come on, these non-Californians don't understand our predicement. But remember about he who laughs last.

 

[choochboost]

garand_shooter,

You're right. I was off base with my comment. You were not comparing the two. Also, when I said "Nazi collector," I didn't articulate well. I did not mean to imply the collector was a Nazi, I was referring to collectors of Nazi memorabilia.

As for how they represent gun owners, we should destroy stereotypes through education, not propogate them through prejudice. Which of these are you doing through your actions?

I agree we can destroy stereotypes through education but we can also inadvertently perpetuate them through our actions. I don't want to see gun owners stereotyped as extremists nor do I want to see gun shows looked upon as havens of hate. I understand how these war artifacts could have been captured from the enemy, which has nothing to do with being a Nazi sympathizer, but I just don't understand the fascination with all the Nazi gear. I guess I don't have to understand. I just think it counterproductive when we are trying to our cause. A similar but silly comparison would be mall ninjas. I don't want to be associated with them and so I make sure not to act like one or look like one. I care about how responsible, law-abiding gun owners are seen in society and I want us to have a good reputation.

So, in summary:
Are vendors who sell Nazi Memorabilia Nazis? Not necessarily.
Do they have a right to display and sell it? Yes.
Is it potentially harmful to our image? IMO, yes.

 

[mthalo]

DonPRK says,

Some of you people need to grow a thicker skin...

Hopefully not to make sturdier lampshades out of

Seriously, I'm Jewish, I like to collect WWII memorabilia, and have strong opinions on this.
1) I'm not particularly offended by authentic Nazi memorabilia. The Nazi's are a part of an ugly and horrible history, but one that shouldn't be repressed or forgotten. Pretending that the Holocaust did not happen, and ignoring history in general will never let us learn from the past. It's kind of like the gun control people banning the use of the word "bullet" in schools.
2) I do find it offensive when such materials are displayed in a flashy manner, like a display of flags at gunshow table. Discretion is important here. It is harmful to our image.
3) The reproduction stuff like the cheap pocketknives emblazoned with swastikas or klan logos shows me whose table not to buy from. These items have no place in society.

Do I make any sense here?

 

[mthalo]

Sorry, double post

 

[mtn. man]

OK i cant stand it any longer i'm comeing out of the closet' i admit it I AM A GUN LOVEING REDNECK.
Born and raised in these hills of TN. i own more guns than i will ever need and want more.
I also own several Mosin Nagants but i'm not communist. There are some K98's in there too but i'm not a Nazi.
I fly the confederate flag once in awhile for the southern men who died fighting for states rights but not for slavery.
I help my neighbors when they are in need' i even go to church every once in awhile.
I built my home with my own two hands and bought material with money i earned.
Mosty now i save for retirement and enjoy my grandkids.
I come from a long line of rednecks two uncles ww11 graddad ww1 my dad Korea [ Two purple hearts and a metal of valor]
Now someone tell me just exactly whats wrong with being a gun loveing redneck.

 

[roy reali]

Re: Mtn. Man

There is absolutely nothing wrong with your attitude. I admire folks like you. However, what is fine in Tennessee is not right in California and vice-a-versa. I would bet dollars to doughnuts that Birkenstocks and tofu don't sell quite as well there as they do here.

But what happens with guns and our rights here in California will eventually bite you in the rear.

 

[lizziedog1]

MILITARY BUFFS?
Some of you calm the Nazi stuff at gun shows is just a show of military memorabilia. It just may well be. But why is all the interst related to our war with Germany and Nazis? Did we not fight against Japan? Where is the Japanese flag? Italy was on Germany's side, where is their flag.

Don't you find it odd that most of the World War Two stuff on display at gun shows is Nazi related? I think the message is more then a passing interest in history.

 

[eng2]

lizziedog1 +1 on that.

 

[FirstFreedom]

The South will rise again!

Seriously, although it should NOT be interpreted as reflective of gun owners in general, there is certainly a small but solid core or contingent of individuals who attend gun shows who are of a racist mentality. They are a minority at the shows, and an *extreme* minority among gun owners in general (since only a fraction of gun owners attend gun shows). It is indeed unfortunate that those particular idgits associate the Confederate Flag with racism (because it shouldn't), but for better or worse, they do, and are thus drawn to tables with those symbols. It is pretty fair to say that the Nazi flag IS a symbol of racism, but others would even disagree with that. The vendors in question, if they are just there to amuse themselves and spend money on the table fee, then more power to them. If they are there to make money, then more power to them as long as enough people buy from them to allow them to make a profit - that's free speech & association, racist or not. If they are there to make a profit, and they don't, then they'll shut down & go home. I personally don't buy from someone with a Nazi flag, but I would from someone with a Confederate flag (without the nazi flag), since it is NOT, per se, a symbol of racism, to me and many others. But I'm from the South, and so I understand the War of Northern Aggression was not about slavery, but about the Union fedgov violating the Constitution by curtailing the right of secession of the individual states (my public school education notwithstanding).

Now someone tell me just exactly whats wrong with being a gun loveing redneck.

Nothin' atall!