Grinding the bottom of die or top of shell holder

[tangolima]

I don't try to measure the distance between the shoulder and the breech face in terms of inches and thousandths of. It is meaningless to me.

I screw down the die progressively till the brass chambers without resistance, and then add a little more, a mm or so on the die's circumference.

I never worry about saami specs or headspace gauges, because I am not cutting a chamber for a customer, nor producing ammunitions for public consumption. I'm just making rounds for this particular rifle. It is rather simple really. Feeler gauge or not, it works the same. It don't like using feeler gauge as shim as it is a measurement tool, not for taking load.

-TL

 

[jmorris]

I screw down the die progressively till the brass chambers without resistance, and then add a little more, a mm or so on the die's circumference.

That is pretty much what the OP and I are talking about. Ours happened to not have enough "down" and bottomed out before "chambers without resistance".

 

[F. Guffey]

and then add a little more, a mm or so on the die's circumference.

A mm? that would be about .040"; with 14 threads per inch that would be over half a turn. Half a turn would be .0356". When using a feeler gage I mananage at least 15 different length cases if I decided to separate the cases length by .002" each.

It don't like using feeler gauge as shim as it is a measurement tool, not for taking load.

Who is using a feeler gage under a load. I place the load between the threads and lock nut. I secure the die to the press with the lock nut after adjusting the die. Again, I have a set of feeler gages that looked like I used them on a Tasmanian Devil; no I did not use the gages on a Tasmanian Devil, that would be cruel. I was testing an engine for compression.

I know, most remove a spark plug then place the compression gage in the spark plug and then have someone to crank the engine. Well, this particular engine did not have spark plugs and it had a 700 ++ cubic inch engine and then it had to be done in a hurry. So I did it while it was running.

F. Guffey

 

[F. Guffey]

happened to not have enough "down" and bottomed out before

That is what I am talking about, when the die will not get closer to the deck of the shell holder raise the deck; HOW? The deck can be raised with a feeler gage when placed on the deck and case head.

I understand; precision is not part of some reloaders vocabulary, I am not talking to those reloaders. There is a remote chance there are reloaders that read these threads and want to know how much to grind off the bottom of a die and or shell holder. I am the only one that has the tool for precession grinding the bottom of a die or top of the shell holder. I exaggerated the truth; I have three of them. I do not use the machines for that purpose but 'JIC'; as in just in case.

F. Guffey

 

[briandg]

I'd like to ask, would it be best to remove and shorten the barrel so it can be rechambered to the best "standard" ammo configuration, or would it be better to have a die custom made to use and form brass to work with his chamber dimensions? I wonder if rechambering would be easier, as a good Smith could do it on-site.

 

[tangolima]

You need to have the reamer to ream the chamber longer. I mostly shoot worn out milsurp rifles. Short chambers are rather rare.

-TL

 

[F. Guffey]

I'd like to ask, would it be best to remove and shorten the barrel so it can be rechambered to the best "standard" ammo configuration, or would it be better to have a die custom made to use and form brass to work with his chamber dimensions? I wonder if rechambering would be easier, as a good Smith could do it on-site.

Briandg, Yes the barrel can be set back, but as you can see as you read through this thread every time I can 'it can be done' there are 4 members that clamed 'it' can not be done. Then there are those responses that claim it is not important.

I have a rifle that is not the exception nor is it rare. I have an Eddyston M1917 with a long chamber. Somewhere along the 100 year lifetime of the rifle the chamber had .011" added to the length of the chamber from the shoulder to the bolt face. The rifle is not the exception, it is common. Does that lock me up? NO. Am I worried about head space? NO. Because no one will ask why I will explain; when I fire 30/06 factory ammo in that rifle the cases do not stretch between the case head and case body. No one on this forum understands that but Uncle Nick. I can prove the case does not stretch between the case head and case body even that is a hard sell.

What can I do to fix it? I have some heavy barrels I could cut and chamber, I could move the barrel back .100" and then chamber it to a 308 Norma Mag, 300 Win Mag. or I could apply the leaver policy, I can choose to leaver the way I founder.

The leaver policy allows me to measure the length of the chamber from the shoulder of the chamber to the bolt face. After determining the length of the chamber I raise the die off of the shell holder .016" then form 280 Remington cases to 30/06 cases with .016" added to the length of the case between the shoulder of the case to the case head. For those that have there pencils out and writing this stuff down after forming the 280 Remington case to 30/06 I have the magic .002" clearance everyone claims they get.

F. Guffey

 

[F. Guffey]

And then there was that time I had an FN with a long? 30/06 chamber, not a problem. I reamed the chamber to 30 Gibbs. The 30 Gibbs will clean up a 30/06 chamber. It was suggested I use the 30 Ackley chamber reamer and I thought that could cause me to be in the twilight zone. WHY? Because I checked the chamber specs and decided the Ackley reamer would not clean up the 30/06 chamber.

But, even that would not lock me up, all it meant was my chamber would be an Ackley Improved 30/06 chamber but it would be version 3, even that would not drive me to the curb because I am not 'THE CASE FORMER' bu I am another case former.

F. Guffey

 

[jmorris]

I am the only one that has the tool for precession grinding the bottom of a die or top of the shell holder.

I just used a lathe.

 

[tangolima]

A mm? that would be about .040"; with 14 threads per inch that would be over half a turn. Half a turn would be .0356". When using a feeler gage I mananage at least 15 different length cases if I decided to separate the cases length by .002" each.F. Guffey

1 mm on the CIRCUMFERENCE. That is equivalent to 7/1000 of a turn, or 0.0005" downward.

Who is using a feeler gage under a load.F. Guffey

The feeler gauge is kept between the brass head and the deck of the shell holder during sizing, is it not?

-TL

 

[F. Guffey]

How many inches in 1 mm? The answer is 0.0393700787402.
We assume you are converting between inch and millimeter. It is real easy for a reloader to keep up with. The 10 mm is close to the 40 caliber.

Is it not? You are catching on, I was thinking I was going to run out of ways to explain it. Yes the case is raised off of the deck of the shell holder to increases the dies ability to reduce the length of the case from the shoulder to the case head. And there is that part where we may never get around to talking about. And yes that puts the feeler gage between the deck of the shell holder and case head.

I guess you are going to tell me there is enough weight/pressure to imprint the case head onto the feeler gage. There is nothing like starting over every day as thought it was a new day.

F. Guffey.

 

[tangolima]

It won't be necessary to start over. I'm quite done here. Thank you.

-TL

 

[jmorris]

I don't think you would hurt a decent feeler gauge doing what your talking about. I actually did a "field repair" on an air compressor more than a decade ago using two of them to replace the reed valves, still working.

Just not needed the way I set up dies. I know a lot of instructions say run the die down to the shell plate and tighten it up (some add in some amount of rotation after contact as well) but I set them either by a case gauge or by the method written about above. Not to mention many times I use a shell plate/holder that was made by a different manufacture than the die. No reason to think there is an industry standard hat everyone goes by. No need to worry about numbers that are inconsequential, if you can get them set right in the end.

 

[Gunplummer]

I just kind of drifted back to this mess. So, a Carcano. I have owned a couple Type "I" Carcanos, and all of them had really tight chambers with original Japanese ammo. Maybe Italy had their own specs with Military stuff.

 

[F. Guffey]

Not to mention many times I use a shell plate/holder that was made by a different manufacture than the die. No reason to think there is an industry standard hat everyone goes by. No need to worry about numbers that are inconsequential, if you can get them set right in the end.

No reason to think there is an industry standard hat everyone goes by.

I have shell holders, lots of shell holders. I have presses that require two shell holders. I have a reason to think there is an industrial standard for shell holder because there is a standard. My shell holders have a deck height of .125”. I have height gages and I have depth gages and there is the dial caliper.

I have Redding shell holders, I have Herter shell holders, I have RCBS shell holders with 4 different designs; all of my RCBS shell holders have a deck height of .125”. And I have Lee shell holders, I have Hollywood shell holders, I have C&H shell holders. And then I have shell holders that were made in the ‘50s, I do not use them but I have them JIC (just in case). The deck height of the old shell holders range from .125” to .116”. The top of the shell holders have not been ground to reduce the deck height and the shell holders are not stamped with the deck height; even thought the old shell holders are stamped with two different companies both brands were made by one manufacturer.

I have shell holders that screw on to the ram, I do not use them but I have them JIC.

And then I have one set of Redding Competition Shell holders. I paid $5.00 for the set of 5. Again; I do not use them but I have them JIC. Three of the 5 shell holders are off by .001” each. That does not drive me to the curb. Anything I can do with the set of 5 I can do with a standard shell holder plus I can go -.012” below minimum length to infinity beyond the .010” over minimum length/full length sized.

F. Guffey

 

[Yosemite Steve]

I'm glad I found this post. My new bolt head reduced my chamber length so that my gun will no longer close on a go gauge. I didn't want to kick down for a short base die $40 so I'm going to use a feller gauge on my RCBS shell holder to find the sweet spot and take that amount off the shell holder. I can't imagine a few thousandths of an inch weakening my shell holder to a degree that might cause me any trouble. Shell holders are cheap.

 

[44 AMP]

My new bolt head reduced my chamber length so that my gun will no longer close on a go gauge.

If it won't close on a "GO" gauge, it has insufficient headspace. Screwing around taking metal off the bottom of the sizer die, and/or the top of the shell holder can allow you to make ammo that will fit in your out of spec chamber.

It is, however, a "work around" to avoid the proper thing to do, which is fix the rifle! Get thee, and thy gun to a qualified gunsmith, and have them fix the headspace.

 

[603Country]

If the bolt won’t close on factory ammo, for sure a gunsmith is where to go. If, however, there’s just resistance to closing the bolt, then removing a little metal for an “adjustment” to the shell holder or die is workable and safe. Of course, that ammo should be just for that specific rifle.

But, yes, if you have a new bolt, i’d see a gunsmith to make sure all is within acceptable parameters.

 

[F. Guffey]

-0/

My new bolt head reduced my chamber length so that my gun will no longer close on a go gauge.

The first thing I would have done is determined how much the new bolt face was going to lengthen/shorten the chamber. problem; there are too many reloaders claiming 'it can not be done'.

The advantage to having a go-gage when determining the length of the chamber? That is something else that can not be done.

F. Guffey

 

[Sure Shot Mc Gee]

I've done the same on a couple of occasion's. {file a shell holder} But not to the extent of weakening a shell holder. I don't think its beneficial to file shorten a Resizing Die for the purpose either like many members commented before me.
If I were to run into another firearm having the same problem today? I would seek out the advice of a knowledgeable Gunsmith in how too_ resolve.