Good .22cal for backup carry

Mossy500

New member
I already have my main carry gun and have become pretty proficient with that. but i want to get a small backup gun that i can carry, probably in a ankle holster. Ive decided on getting a .22 pistol for this, right now because i can buy one and a surplus of ammo for it, so that i can become proficient with that too.
i dont want to hear anybody telling me a .22 doesnt have enough stopping power or anything like that. there is a pretty good argument for the quick-shok rounds here, http://www.thefiringline.com/forums/archive/index.php/t-48339.html ,

i just want to know what your preference for a compact .22 pistol is, and of course what you like and dislike about various guns..
thanks for the input
 

raftman

New member
Do you have a good budget to work with? I suppose if you're concerned about ammo prices, you may not be willing or able to spend huge amounts. I've had a couple of .22 pocket semi-autos, both were quite cheap, and neither was at all reliable. Something like Walther TPH would do nicely, but they're like $500. A lot of people praise the Iver Johnston TP-22 but I've had some very bad luck with one of those.
 

Mossy500

New member
i dont have a huge budget but since it is a backup gun i have some time to save a bit. plus with the good ammo prices i can afford a bit more expensive gun
 

jontz

New member
I would really consider a revolver for this application if you are dead set on a .22. I haven't seen a .22 pistol that functions 100% reliably because there just isn't much powder in that little load. That said I don't have a good revolver suggestion for you, maybe someone else here will.
 

MTT TL

New member
Well, that thread you are referencing is just packed with excellent suggestions from people really in the know. In fact I learned tons from reading it:

My argument is regarding, note here; CIVILIAN PERSONAL DEFENSE (not police, military, or defense agains bears or rhinos):

First: We should all agree that the weapon we have with us all the time as a civilian, is senior to the one we don't have when it's needed. A person therefore who decides to carry a firearm full-time will more likely carry a smaller lighter gun more of the time... than the same person will carry a larger heavier gun.

Second: For many folks concealment is difficult in MANY situations. Not everyone can wear baggy clothing with the shirt tail out and a vest or coat all the time. The .22 pocket pistol can be concealed almost all the time; no matter what one is wearing. One of my old clients (a "wet" agent for the US Govt.) used to carry a Walther TPH even when he wore his Speedo swimming suit. In that situation he pushed it into two condoms, one within the other and secreted it "up tight and out of sight". By the way this same professional, whose jobe was personel removal, had two larger guns for his job; a .22 caliber Ruger Mark 1 and a .22 caliber AR-7 Explorer.

Third: If one has to fire a handgun in self defense; shot placement is paramount to any other factor after the factor of "having it with you". There are many .22 pocket pistols that are more accurate than most larger calibers; until you get to 9x18, 9x19 or .45. I agree here that before the advent of the super .22 such as Aquila, Stinger and especially Quick-Shock that the .32 was superior in power and equal in accuracy. The .25 is not more powerful and is not any longer any more reliable according to my experience.

Fourth: In the "old days" it was often enough to show your gun when needed; in that situation a Desert Eagle or a 10 gauge double barrel is nice to pull; that is NOT a good idea anymore. Once the firearm is pulled out (brandished the prosecuting attorney will say) you are at severe risk of going to court whether or not you fire. So it is NOT a good idea to pull your gun to stop the fight any more unless you are on-duty law enforcement. The .22 pocket pistol can be gotten to and pulled out ready to use, or kept where it doesn't show and with your hand on it and finger ready for the trigger, until time to draw and fire. That readiness is far more difficult to achieve with any other caliber.

Fifth: The .22 can be fired in practice far more affordably than any other caliber. With extensive practice, which is most sensible if one decides to carry a weapon; the draw and shot are improved.

Sixth: The old arguments about power, reliability and effectiveness of the .22 are lessened dramatically when the discussion of the pocket .22 for defense includes; that the tiny pistol will be loaded with Aquilia, Stinger or BEST of all... Quick-Shock.

The Quick-Shock is tremendously effective in a water saturated and somewhat confined media; such as a living meat body. Those who doubt the effectiveness of the Quick-Shock should do a test and take several pistols of different calibers out and test them on cheaply available large vegetables and melons, # 10 cans of tomato paste or beef stew, or out of date meat from the grocer or butcher. In fact, as I was becoming a believer I decided to try the Quick-Shock out on a large ham... Scary!!! Not much left to eat... Better yet try one on some living animal that needs killing for food or to eliminate a feral threat (legally I hope).

When my son and I tested the Quick-Shocks against even the "best" larger and more expensive calibers on numerous hydroshockable media we decided in favor of the .22 Quick-Shock. Try it yourself before you take me on with this argument please. I know I've seen the ballistic gelatin tests claiming that the Quick-Shock is not effective. I also am personally aware of tests on numerous tests which included large cabbage, pumpkins, melons, pigs, cows, feral dogs, diseased fox, and some more... no I don't know of any tests on humans and won't likely either. Those folks who use .22s on humans, and there are some who do this as a job, don't talk to me about such things.

OK... I agree... Bigger is better... when available. When I was younger (40 years ago) and the relevant law was not enforced; I carried an over and under 12 gauge sawn down to nearly pistol size (11" end to end). And when I lived, walked and camped in the swamps of central Florida 20 years ago, I carried a very short and legally modified pump 12 gauge 4 shot which was sawn at the end of the magazine tube and just behind my right pinkie when I held the trigger. So if we are going to talk pistol caliber for stopping power -- sure... 12 gauge, 10 gauge, or best of all a VERY (flare signal) Pistol are better; they can be had for a price. But will it qualify as "always with you" per my first argument above?

Quick run down-

- Government assassins carry Walther TPHs in condoms stuffed in their ehhh "personal area" while swimming in speedos and then tell people about it.

- Government assassins use AR-7 explorers (probably because they float)

- .22 pocket pistols are more accurate than larger caliber guns except for 9mm and .45

- .22 Stingers are more powerful than .25s or .32s

- Desert Eagles and 10 Gauge shot guns are scary guns that will get you arrested for brandishing but pocket pistols will not

- I am not smart enough to even begin to understand the whole Quick-shot thing. But it sounds magical.

- The 1934 NFA was not enforced for sawed off shotguns, even though it went to the Supreme Court.

So I say go with the Walther
 
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Kiawah

New member
Why don't you look at a NAA mini-mag, Pug, or Black Widow in .22 magnum. Around 6 ounces you wouldn't even notice the weight.
 

MTT TL

New member
If you read down about seven years later, the poster concluded this:

The weight of the .25 is so much more than the fast .22s that it will penetrate better in almost every case.

In addition, the .25 caliber, being centerfire, is far less likely to misfire by way of not going off. There are some super-fine, older and very small pocket pistols in .25 that are FAR smaller than the Walther .22 TPH, such as the famous and wonderful Baby-Browning, the Colt Vest-Pocket and the CZ Duo! These fine pistols will fit inside a pack of cigarettes and leave room for some cigs and a lighter inside the pack as well... and in fact this was an oft used method of carry among some folks from police forces without uniforms. These fine little .25 caliber pistols came out about 1905 and there are still many of them in fine condition available.

Corbon, maker of some of the finest self defense ammo in most every caliber; has a great choice of fast, light and well designed hollow point that is everything that is great about the .22 ammo AND has the above advantages of being the center-fire .25 and thus can be used in the even smaller vintage .25 caliber micro-pistols and have the explosive velocity of the hottest .22 ammo in a smaller pistol!

and this:

In summation; my choices do evolve as testing, research and evidence from my own experience shows how I may improve my choices.

But I won't tell you the .22 is a poor choice, your reference already told you that.
 

qwman68

Moderator
If all you have is a .22 then thats fine.I think if you have to use it any gun is better than no gun. One poster said the NAA guns were an option.Ipersonally have seen those and if I had to carry a .22.then i suppose it would be one of their pistols.
 

rsxr22

New member
if you insist on a .22 for backup, either way i would also highly recommend getting a small .22 revolver. The one and only reason i suggest this is because of reliability.
 

DasFriek

Moderator
I don't think a derringer is gonna make a fun gun imo,but those NAA ones are very well built.But i have never shot one tho.
I think Berreta makes a small .22 that is pretty reliable.
I like the Walther P22 if your looking for a fun gun,and its small enough it wouldn't be too hard to conceal.Newer versions seem to be more reliable so old posts you read about the p22 may not be so accurate anymore.

This may be an option:
Phoenix Arms DLX Rangemaster HP22A Target Kit with 3" and 5" barrels.
http://www.gunbroker.com/Auction/ViewItem.asp?Item=145111123

I don't suggest buying that exact one,i think you can find them a bit cheaper.
Phoenix Arms DOES NOT have the best reputation,but this is the one and only gun they make that is great and designed well.It has a pretty good following in certain forums also.
The 3" barrel is good for concealing and the 5" for the range.Ive held this gun at my local shop and i do like it alot.I may even buy one some day as you can never have too many .22 plinker's.
 

raftman

New member
Aren't the mini-revolvers single action only? So with them, don't you get a gun that's uncomfortable to hold, difficult to be accurate with, coupled with a slow rate of fire? Doesn't seem desirable in a gun already handicapped by a small/weak caliber.

Not knocking .22 as a BUG, but just saying, if that's gonna be your choice, it should be a gun that one should be able to shoot accurately and quickly. When people debate whether or not a .22 is useful for SD, the folks that think it is, often point out the low recoil of the round allows for fast, accurate follow-up shots. With the mini-revolvers, I think you negate that advantage as you shoot slower and of course it takes longer to reacquire the target between shots as well.
 

DasFriek

Moderator
Maybe try finding a small 9mm or .40 that has a .22 conversion.
That way you have a strong bug and a fun plinker.
Problem is finding one small enough.Glock has them also but they aren't small bugs tho.ill try and think of one and post back if it hits me.
 

raftman

New member
It's a shame .25 acp is pricey (in the same price range as larger caliber pistol ammo)... because it would give you more choices when it comes to nice, pocket-sized semi-autos. Colt Junior, or Vest Pocket, Baby Browning, Bauer, Beretta Jetfire... among others.
 

Stumper

New member
I am a .22 believer. Unfortunately the ideal .22 BUG is not on the market IMO. The NAA minis are cute as can be and easily carried.......but they are not easily used I have one and have carried it-but it sucks fro plinking and inspires no confidence at anything approaching an extended range self defense scenario. Most of the better grade .22 autos are larger than our smallest .380s......in which case the smaller more powerful gun makes a better choice for everything but plinking. It remains true that the best choice fro reliability in .22lr is usually a revolver. The minis are too small and inaccurate. A J frame size revolver could easily be a .22 magnum, .32 magnum or .38 special- back to the power thing. A J frame .22 IS a fun plinker and I wouldn't feel badly about having it in hand for defense...... but I'd rather have the same gun in .38. There is a real place in the market (at least I WANT ONE) for a 6 or 7 shot .22 dbl action round butt revolver that is intermediate in size between a J frame Smith and a NAA mini. 75-100 years ago there were a bunch of cheap H&Rs and Iver Johnsons filling this niche. IF someone would produce a quality arm in this class I think it would sell well.

It is only my opinion but, while I agree in principle with your reasoning-get a BUG you can afford to practice with- in the current market I think your best choice is to buy a full size .22 for plinking and practice.-Trigger control will transfer to any gun to some degree. When you can afford it I would add a small .380 or .38 special as a BUG
 

output

New member
I would go with a revolver. The Smith and Wesson 351PD would be perfect for carry "in that caliber" you can even get a 10rd cylinder.
 

PSP

New member
Ankle carry only works when the gun is really small. Any of the shorter NAA revolvers will work. The Walther TPH is a very good choice. A better choice would probably be a small .32 such as the Seecamp, NAA, or any of the new polymer wonder guns.

Almost any of these others will do...on the link here...
http://www.mouseguns.com/PocketAutoComparison.pdf
 
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