Going downhill...

[JohnKSa]

In the last two days I've seen posters on TFL:

Post advice on weapon selection based on video game experience.

Post that 8mm, 30-08 (sic) and .308 all have the same bore diameter and that 30-08 (sic) and .308 will chamber and fire in an 8mm Mauser.

Post that they can't support their allegations that more than one headshot with a .223 rifle is required to stop a person because their security clearance prevents it.

And that's just what comes to mind offhand. :barf:

 

[Handy]

Alot of new posters, John. All will get it, eventually. They'll either disappear, like GlockArmorer seems to have, or they'll learn to ask rather than tell.

And by the way, I just read that even multiple head shots with .223 isn't going to do it.

 

[Wallew]

Handy,
You get the same offer I just made to John. Drop me a kite and I'll send you an invite to the blow out when MY BUDDIES COME BACK.

Something I never got to do for a lot of buddies thirty years ago. It was not popular and they all went low key. NOW I CAN CELEBRATE THEIR SERVICE WITH THEM. LRRPs, heli pilots, plain old gurnts, sailors, etc (a lot of us ride togehter when we can now). All my newer buddies just LOVE to hear all the 'old guys' tell their VI ET NAM stories. Of course, guys MY AGE love to listen to my Dad talk about WWII. Battle of the Bulge. Bridge at Remagen, Fighting 99th (the Checkerboard).

SO, don't believe me. I don't care. It's cool. I KNOW what I've done, where I've been and I'm proud of all of it. Would NOT repeat some of it, but yeah, proud to have survived this long. And making friends like I have along the way MEANS more to me than anything the internet has to offer. I left this board two (three?) years ago. My health took a turn for the worse, right after 9/11. As I'm adopted and don't know my medical history, I freaked. So now I just do what I want.

And I just try and take life one day at a time. I worry over my buddies in ME. I NEVER ASK specifics, and I pray every night for each one to come home safely and in one peice physically. THEY will NEVER be the same. I know that. I am confident YOU AND JOHN know that also.

And I respect your disbelief. But I do offer you that chance to suspend that disbelief if you wish. Up to you. I know how busy life can make all of us. And sometimes, boom, a friend dies. Gets divorced. Or run over by an inattentive driver. And on. And on. And on. Do what's BEST for you.

And guys, IF YOU WANT TO RIDICULE ME IN FRONT OF THE BOARD, I'M AN ADULT AND MAN ENOUGH TO TAKE YOUR SLINGS AND ARROWS. I am neither afraid nor hurt, as my skin is way to thick for anything like that. But, you both are also WELCOME to contact me privately to RIDICULE me if you wish, saving the boards bandwidth. Unless YOU feel the need to do so publicly. In which case I DO UNDERSTAND. But so you all understand, I don't BACK UP worth a damn. But I do understand if you don't believe.

And so everyone here DOES UNDERSTAND. I use the WALLEW log in all over the net. SO, if you see that handle, IT SHOULD BE ME. I also use that as my 'Nome de plume' (name I write under) for motorcycle rags also and I have TWO personalized license plates (CA & CO) that say that same thing from years ago. I now try to present a lower keyed outward appearance. I no longer go at 100 mph, SCREAMING, with my hair on fire. I no longer have that much hair, my voice and eyes are slowly going, but I still have a lead foot. I am politically active for TWO things - motorcycles and firearms issues. As my knees go, my motorcycle days will cease. Hopefully I'll at least be able to still shoot.

John & Handy, keep up the good posts. Jw

 

[TheBluesMan]

In my experience, most of these claims have been refuted pretty well by members who know. In other cases, they are just matters of opinion that usually don't really matter.

I guess it comes down to whether one is the type of person who starts complaining on June 23 about the days getting shorter, or goes out and makes his summer something to remember.

I hope you will continue to contribute to The Firing Line, John.

-Dave

 

[Wallew]

Dave,
I just ordered DSL. Only took them seven YEARS to get my house on the list. So I ain't going anywhere.

And I just sent SOF a request to let me know WHICH two back issues to repurchase, so I can quote chapter AND verse to those who ARE interested in da Armies newest upcoming round.

The 6.8 mm!

Thx for the words.

 

[WhoKnowsWho]

Hopefully, people who come here will leave a little better educated... I know I did originally.

 

[Wallew]

And A Free Oil Change...

Handy and John,
I frequent MANY chat rooms. On one of the Harley chat rooms, I reported what happened when I changed our vehicles over from regular oil to Royal Purple synthetic.

I was lambasted THREE WAYS FROM SUNDAY. Called all sorts of names. Kind of like you did to me HERE.

Then I offered the ONE guy who called me most of those names A FREE OIL CHANGE AT MY EXPENSE. BUT I would be sending him Royal Purple. As long as he would report the results back to the other Harley riders on the board.

I made that offer THREE TIMES. He never did take me up on it. Kind of like you guys and my offer to attend the 'blow out/blow off/ blow up party' that I will be throwing when 'my guys' come back from ME.

I think that the lack of response I got from the guy over on the Harley board SPEAKS VOLUMES. To his need to attack people that disagree with him and when OFFERED a solution he does NOT LIKE, he runs and hides.

Nuff said.

 

[Handy]

Wallew,

Here's the thing. You aren't living in a vaccuum. I'm a military helicopter pilot, and have known more than a couple spec ops types myself. If I opinioned to any of them that a head shot with .223 might not stop someone, they'd all get up and move to another lunch table.

You're not the only one here with a resume. Lots of old and current soldiers, cops and gunsmiths frequent this board. If you are getting disagreed with, you might consider that it might not be that ALL of us that have silly opinions.

The debates around here usually amount to minutia, like what the maximum effective range of .223 is, not whether it works at all at pistol ranges. By all means, post what you think, just don't be surprised if that opinion is closely scurtinized if it doesn't "ring true".

 

[Wallew]

It is of great importance to set a resolution, not to be shaken, never to tell an untruth. There is no vice so mean, so pitiful, so contemptible; and he who permits himself to tell a lie once, finds it much easier to do it a second and a third time, till at length it becomes habitual. -- Thomas Jefferson

SO, call me a liar if you will. I STAND BY WHAT I SAID. And I find it interesting that neither of you wish to 'take me up' on my offer of free beer, free food and the comraderie of 'your fellow servicemen'.

just don't be surprised if that opinion is closely scurtinized if it doesn't "ring true"

Funny, you want to criticize, but not to take a chance to actually learn the truth from the source. So yeah, your speech DOESN'T RING TRUE.

So, Gunship or Medivac? Got a buddy that did THREE tours. One gunship, two medivac. They wouldn't let him back for a fourth tour. He lost his ship with a rocket right between him and the co-pilot. He wears a piece of drive chain on his wrist, permanently attached. To remind him 'There is no such thing as a free lunch'. IE, we get the freedom that our young men and women sacrifice their lives for.

Never Forget those that DID NOT come back.

 

[Handy]

a chance to actually learn the truth from the source.

"What we have here is a failure to communicate." Wallew, your source is no more valuable than my sources. You know some spec ops guys who hate .223. I know a bunch of spec ops guys who like the round and their M4s. Maybe we should get them together?

I'm not calling you a liar for restating your friend's opinion. I'd assume you'd do the same, but you are insisting that all the people on this board who have direct or indirect experience are completely wrong. I very much doubt that an email or whatever from your friend is going to change what several people on this board have experienced with their own eyes, and I'm surprised that you believe it would.

 

[Wallew]

Handy,

You fell for the bait, hook, line and sinker.

My apologies for baiting you like that. MY point however is that YOU don't know me, at all. Nor I you.

I could be the guy who pulls over and helps your wife change that flat when it's zero degrees outside and snowing like a mother.

I could be the guy, that seeing YOU being outnumbered by a bunch of punks, backs your play to take care of the bad guys.

I could be the guy that TRUSTS my friends and takes their word as their bond. Because MY WORD is my bond.

In this day of 'make the quick buck, jump to the top of the heap', SOME of us just do what we do because it's the RIGHT thing to do.

YOU are one of those people. AS is John and most EVERY body here. SO, again, my apologies for 'baiting' you like that.

I'm just trying to say, never, ever judge a book by it's cover. ESPECIALLY on the internet.

 

[Handy]

I'm pretty sure I just wasted alot of typing.


John, you definitely have a point.

 

[Danindetroit]

Handy you are a military Heliocopter pilot? Right now? What do you fly?

 

[Handy]

I'm in the Navy. I flew logistics and overwater SAR in the UH-3H, VIP in some old Presidential VH-3As (green and white Nixon era birds) and am currently flying HH-1Ns (Huey) for inland mountain SAR. I also spent some time in a fixed wing UC-12B (Beech King Air).

 

[Wallew]

H, you make my point for me

Handy,
You make my point for me. You are correct. YOU DID JUST WASTE a lot of typing. WHY?

Because when I challenged your 'authoriative position' you became defensive. Then, when I baited you, hooked you and flopped you up on the shore, you became indignant.

But, it again just proves MY POINT. I can't prove to YOU what I know, and YOU can't prove to ME what you say YOU KNOW. At least I've tried to give you OPTIONS to prove to yourself some of what I speak. Perhaps a phone call to Chris Murray MIGHT be interesting for you. Last time I spoke with him, he was still working for the AMU at Benning. He is the Armies AR GURU and the guy who designed the 6.8mm. He has some pretty good ideas on 'other' cartridges as well. Knowledge never hurts. KIP.

You'd love my BIL. Retired pilot for Customs. Flew Blackhawks, a smaller rotary bird (I can't identify them - but I bet you could) and Cessna Jets crammed with electronics. He worked until about a year ago. He has also has a real estate development company on the side. About a year ago, he sold a huge track on the Pecos River in West Texas. Made big $$$'s. So, time to retire and just fly his own plane and develop real estate. And he ain't even hit fifty yet.

Ain't the internet a great place?

 

[Danindetroit]

So you make $100,000 a year in the navy?

 

[Handy]

No, Dan. My family's household taxable income was around that last year.

 

[Danindetroit]

There are no differances in the tax code for people in the military? You didn't answer my question about what the army did to make the m-16 from a never needing cleaning wonder weapon to what it was at the start of viet nam. And by the way the spec ops guy in viet nam who recommended the m-16 were giving them to the ARVN, the americans were just all observers until 65, but I am 100% sure they were shooting too.

By the way what did you score on the asfab?

 

[Danindetroit]

Handy I think you might not be telling the truth about a few things. You never have an answer to very direct questions. I am sure that you changed your profile. I think you said you were an engineer in NV. If you are in the armed forces you should be able to tell us your asfab score. I am pretty sure that my dad remembered his from the '50's. You post an awful lot for a navy pilot. Something doesn't add up. I know my asfab score, you can even take a guess what it is if you want. 13 years ago they even gave a little speech before they handed out the tests, do you remember what that was about?

 

[Handy]

There are difference in what is considered pay, but that pay is taxed like everyone else (housing is an allowance.)

Dan, I missed your question about the changes to the M-16. Of all the small ones, the two of consequence were the change from 1 in 14 to 1 in 12 rifling, and a change in the propellant to a ball type powder used in .308.

The rifling was changed for stability in dense arctic air. The once marginally stable bullet was now more stable and less likely to cause drastic wounds.

The powder caused a range of problems. The first and most obvious was a clogging of gas tubes and bolt carrier. But the quick burning powder also drastically increased the cyclic rate of the rifle. The armory responded by increasing the mass of the buffer. Colt complained that none of the guns would pass the op-check with the military ammo, and were given permission to use special ammo formulated more like the Dupont based original. The troops did not get this ammo. Some time later, the ammo was reformulated. This, combined with constant cleaning and cleaning kits, made the guns workable.

While there is no such thing as a "self cleaning rifle", the original AR15 and cartridge designed for it were extremely reliable, clean burning and caused massive tissue damage. US soldiers ended up with something pretty different. The current NATO rifles have departed even further from the original concept by using even more stabilizing rifling. The military got what it cares about: A rifle good for Camp Perry, with adjustable 800 yard sights and sub MOA accuracy. The original concept is pretty much dead.


Pilot candidates don't take an ASVAB. We take the ASTB, which includes both basic skills stuff and flying questions.

If I don't "add up", ask around. I'm known (good and bad) on several boards for quite a few years and my story, and profile, haven't changed.